Party On, Dudes

I've noticed that almost all of the discussion surrounding combat has been in terms of what one's character can and cannot do, as well as the interminable PvP debate.

As I considered all of this, I realized that one of the things I've always found most appealing about online play was in teaming up with my friends, especially for content that was geared towards small groups of players. Even what it was just me and my buddy picking fights with WAY too many enemies and then proving that our teamwork could overcome the challenge (and then divvying up the loot), it was the effect of having live human friends as partners in the work that made gameplay worthwhile.

So I wanted to put forward to the community, to consider and vote:

How important is group play to you? Do you want to be able to complete the entire game without making a single friend? Do you want there to be content that can only be mastered by a coordinated team of allied players (and if so, what size group are you interested in?) Would it bother you if there was group-based-play and you didn't have a group? (even if you could get access to all the rewards eventually?)

 

I don't like games intentionally designed so that you have to complete them with a group. That doesn't mean that there can't be content that's designed with groups in mind, but * someone should be able to complete it solo if he's clever enough to figure out a way to do it, * hirelings are a good part of a solo game anyway, so hirelings could always be paid to help you finish some content as a solo player. Or companions could be recruited; either way.

 

I dislike "flawless execution" mechanics, and groups generally make them worse. So WoW style raiding isn't something I like.
That said, I love contested, open world raiding. Where basically anything can happen, including PvP.

 

This game would be good if it was single player only but it's going to be ZOMG AMAZEBALLS because it's ALSO multiplayer, extremely excited to journey onward with all you wonderful people.

 

The WoW raid fights I loved were the sloppy ones, where we teamed up and overwhelmed a giant monster. My least favorite fights were the choreographed dance routines where we couldn't have ONE person step out of position or the ridiculous mechanics would cascade through the raid.

The former type of raid fight was fun to bring new people to. The latter was one that forced me to CUT friends from (replacing them with pugs) because, much as I liked them, they didn't have the connection speed, or the gear, or the raw dancing skills needed to manage the fight. And that's a conversation I never want to have again.

But when it was good, it was awesome.

 

LOL you just describes a fundamental problem with online games...

 

Well, online games that are typically theme park in nature and need those kind of boss fights, to provide gear for the gear grind, and be "choreographed dance routines" to stop everyone just blazing through them non-stop.

Not all online games are like that

 

they all have the same underlying mechanic though ..

 

No, they really don't. As I just said, a lot of theme park style MMOs do -- absolutely -- and as theme park style MMOs are a large part of the market, that means many games do.

But, as I said, not all online games are like that. This game, to give just one example of a game you would be familiar with (given you're on its forum), won't be like that.

 

That and hard timers. I always hated that as a cop-out mechanic to make a boss enrage to wipe the group if you don't pew-pew it fast enough.

I don't mind group activities, but I don't like group activities that have certain mechanics like that.

 

Yes, actually they do. If you want to say all the new ones are 'theme park' style games though I'd agree lo

 

So... I made the point specifically about theme park style games... and you're saying you'd agree with that... which is good, because that's what I said... yet you start that sentence by disagreeing with me? Um, OK.

 

I said I don't mind it. Truly it depends on what's going on in RL. Sometimes I want to just do my own thing and other times the opposite. What I don't care for is being forced to team up for something to get leveled up like in Final Fantasy XXIV. You absolutely could not proceed without a group. I had pretty good luck with groups in FFXIV but others I know had the WOW experience there of rude and childish groups. So not cool since the game was brand new . So I vote for freedom of choice as always. Please don't tie my hands.

 

Nah, actually I think we agreed on about as many things as disagreed on.

 

The UO was the only MMO that I played that have some big monsters but I can just go and try to kill it alone or with random people in the place help. Was better, faster and more funny to do it with friends, but I was not mandatory at all.

 

But there have been others, like I was saying to Mike. EQ comes immediately to mind, for example. The original SWG does as well.

 

Ah yes, SWG! I didnt play EQ that much... But is curious, both are near in time of UO. And now no more SWG, SWTOR WOW-like is in the market... How many initials!

 

I enjoy when members have to split up and cooperate to solve puzzles to open doors etc as long as they are not too insane ... Such as standing on different platforms to open a door / pulling levers in different locations / sort of a back and forth to allow each group to advance further (could be 2 people or more)

I ok with raids - but would love for the "bosses" to have element of surprise - percent chances that they do or do not do something with enough variable attacks to make the game more reaction / dynamic than scripted scenes

I'm not big on the holy trinity - and would dislike group content to be designed in this manner

 

That's kind of a shallow view of it. I guess if what you consider an underlying mechanic is that the fight was designed to need 10 people, therefore you cannot solo it, yeah, all big group content has the same mechanic. But speaking as an ex-raid leader, who's job was literally to research , deconstruct , and outsmart boss mechanics, the programmers try really hard to avoid repeating themselves. They even try to avoid accidentally mimicking boss fights from other games. In a given raid instance, I don't ever remember seeing the same thing twice. Frequently even the trash mobs would have interesting details, forcing the group to work together in a new way for THAT fight. Now, when the mechanic suddenly put a spotlight on random player A and said, you have three seconds to stand perfectly on random player B, that was a bit much. The choreographed dance fights were very boring and sucky, especially the 500th time. But when the mechanic said "I only pay attention to people who are using heal effects"... that got interesting.

Now, EQ, and WoW, and SWTOR, indeed most of the new crop of MMOs: they used the Holy Trinity party style, and I'd LOVE to see SotA get away from that. The first thing I'd say to the devs is "Ban aggro skills" I don't care how much it hurts, I don't care how hard it is to program, if a skill works solely by causing hate, threat, aggro, priority, lust, snugglehunger, or whatever other name you have for the mechanic, it's a crutch. A really bad crutch, because it's a lead crutch laced with mercury and arsenic. It will poison your game. Aggro skills have always competed with the NATURAL threat from other character's abilities, such as damage or heal effects. If the "tank" was built to actually draw attention to itself, then the fights wouldn't be able to devolve into spamming "aoe taunt". If "tank"s did more than spam "aoe taunt" they might actually start becoming interesting to play.

Get away from that, add in new and different ways of getting things done, and while some PLAYERS will choose to build tank-heal-dps groups, it won't be because the devs forced them to.

Aside from dealing direct damage, though, what else do you do to take a monster down? Well, there is room for cc, as long as it's soft cc (the consequences to PvP of having skill builds that can crowd control as a full time job...), there is room for a buffmonger, who spends his energy improving friends and disimproving enemies (preferably with stacking fields so that if five of them want to debuff one of you, you die. Cause that IS what should happen in a five on one fight) as well as specialists, resource gatherers who need to be in on the kill, craftsmen who can make certain things happen before, during, or after the fight (and are quite possibly the reason FOR the fight? No Blacksmith, no loot?) as well as, for those doing this in PvP areas, a team of PKKs, ready to fend off invaders and ninja...

Just as a few ideas. If I was going to design the whole structure, Portalarium would owe me a paycheck, and we haven't even agreed on my dental benefits yet.

 

Yet again, a poll where my answer could vary to ANY of the responses (except the Raiding one) not only from day to day, but hour to hour, depending on mood.