Player owned apartments

Discussion in 'Housing & Lots' started by Sigma476, Jul 18, 2013.

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  1. Sigma476

    Sigma476 Avatar

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    What if you had the option to turn your house into an apartment complex. It would allow for near-limitless housing for practically any player to access.

    As a landlord you buy land, decide on what type of apartment you want, (maybe four penthouses or a dozen economic apts) and charge rent accordingly. If someone doesn't pay you put them on the curb.

    This could also be used for clan housing. Make the apts and set the rent to zero and you now have free housing for every member of your clan. If that doesn't boost recruitment nothing will.

    I think renting would be best on a lease system. Rent could be due every first real time. If the landlord wishes to evict someone who has paid their rent. Then the person would get a seven day notice and the rest of their rent money refunded.
     
  2. bcxanth

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    Interesting idea. The only issue with it though is basically the same problem you have in real life. What if the person who owns the building can't pay the rent? Or they decide to stop playing the game and let things go? Then someone has invested a lot of money in rent for a home that they no longer have.

    A better idea might be to take the Asheron's Call approach to apartments. A dungeon like area not on the main map where you can buy a little living area. Much smaller than the smallest house, but still some storage and some hooks on the wall for display. And by having it off the main map and in its own instance means a large amount of housing available without the lag on your computer generated by having to render all the housing along with everything else.
     
  3. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    I played AC, so I know the residence halls you are talking about. In this game, they see instanced housing as something that devalues the regular plots, so I strongly believe they will never happen.

    On the other hand, someone with a large plot building an Inn and renting out rooms sounds like something that may be workable.
     
  4. bcxanth

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    I don't really see how having an instanced apartment complex would devalue the regular plots myself. For instance in AC it was much easier to get an apartment, but I still invested the time to get the house I wanted because it looked better and had more features. For me, I don't want a house just to have a house. I want a house because of what I can do with it. However if I can't afford to get a house, but can easily afford an apartment to start with, then it would be good to go that route but it still wouldn't make me value any less the goal of getting a house in the future. It just seems like it would be a good way to open up the idea of housing to more casual players who don't have the time to invest in amassing the purchase price of a house. It would add something to the game that wouldn't really take away anything from anyone that doesn't want one.
     
  5. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    Some people paid $500-$10000 for a plot of land and a house, because the devs told us that housing would be rare.
    If they now make some form of housing easy to get and more available, there would be some rage.
     
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  6. bcxanth

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    Maybe it's just me then. I'm pledged to Citizen level, but it wouldn't hurt me at all if someone else who couldn't pledge that amount got themselves an apartment in some instanced apartment complex somewhere. I'll still have the ability for everyone to see my home without having to go to an instance, and I would still have more storage and display areas. Also, for those of us that did pledge to a tier that gets us a house, it's not like that means we'll be the only ones with housing. So if someone else getting a house next door to me won't make me upset, why would someone getting an apartment I may never see make me upset? :) Especially because I would still have the backer exclusives for my house that nobody else has.
     
  7. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    I think you are probably more generous than a lot of other people. I know a couple of Citizens that grudgingly pledged that because it was the lowest price to get some form of housing. Pretty sure they'd be upset if the devs added instanced housing for lower cost.
     
  8. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    Everyone needs somewhere to hang their hat. And there won't be enough houses in the world for everyone. So instanced rent-only lodging in inns makes a lot of sense, and in no way conflicts with the prominence of owning the highly sought after housing properties.

    This game is going to become really aggravating to play if there's a bunch of people on it saying they're better than everyone else because they paid more real-life $$ to play. It's great that some people have special in-game rewards, but if there's an 'inner-circle' of VIPs who have a clear advantage in a gameplay sense over the rest of the players, I suspect everyone else will either make sure there's a way to become a part of this group, or leave the game and play something else. When a game accepts real life money to enhance and advance characters through the game, it's no longer about quality gameplay, it's about how deep are your pockets. I would never play a DnD table top game where the GM accepts bribes from players to advance their characters through the story, and I would never play the virtual equivalent in a computer game either..

    So to prevent SotA from being another 'pay to play' game, which I'm certain was never its intention, these special limited houses that people are paying real money for need to be fantastic, thrilling and creative rewards that bring a huge amount of enjoyment, while at the same time, not directly provide a distinct gameplay advantage in the main story arch.

    To be honest, I don't think the high prices on kickstarter were to reflect the worth of the in-game houses so much as to reflect the value of having access to the inner-developer circle while the game is being created. The houses were only included on the more expensive tiers because of their limited availability in the world.
     
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  9. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    Well, perhaps I'm the odd one.
    My Kickstarter pledge was all about being able to have a house. They said not everybody would be able to have a house, and I wanted one. If they change that now, I will be disappointed. I know two people that will be very upset that they paid $500, when they could have paid $25 and got an apartment.

    Now I'll ramble a bit.

    I haven't seen anybody yet saying they were better than everyone else because they paid more. I haven't read every thread. Maybe I missed something. There was talk of forming a Baron+ group, but they didn't say they were better. They just said Baron+ is a small group. Maybe they can organize better. I haven't heard a peep from them in a while. I'm guessing it didn't work out. I know there was a lot of resentment, but I never saw anybody claim to be better than anyone else.

    Is having more storage a clear advantage in gameplay? I can only see an issue for PVP, and since I don't do that, I don't see an issue.
    As a PVE player, I am really not concerned about whether I am better or worse than other players. I care about whether I'm having a good time, and am I able to complete the storyline.

    I think you meant pay-to-win, rather than pay-to-play. I'm positive Richard doesn't want the game to be pay-to-win.

    Post-kickstarter, I've raised my pledge for the extra access, but also for the City property deed, a much more grand house, and the possibility of being woven into the story. But that's so I can be the hero of my own story the way I imagine it. That's why I'm not in a guild, and why I'm planning to play solo until I finish the storyline.

    Rambled too much. Wall of text nobody will read.
     
  10. Sigma476

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    @Sir Frank KC

    While apartments will make housing more available I don't think it will devalue the full homes. Just like in real life few people are content with living in an apartment. It would just be a point between the few handfuls of gold from killing spiders and the few million that they would need to purchase a house.
     
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  11. bcxanth

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    I read it all. :) I think we're definitely just on two sides of the same coin here. I believe you get where I'm coming from and understand my reasoning. I just don't get where you're at, but I think it's because it's just one of those gut feeling things that can't really be explained. So I think for now we're at a point where we have to respectfully disagree on the issue until we have more information on how everything will be implemented.

    That of course is part of the fun and frustration of being invested in a game this early. So many opinions and ideas, but so little concrete information to go on.
     
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  12. Caveloot.com Owner

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    Im personally hoping that any sort of talk about instanced anything in relationship to housing is ignored. Its just a slippery slope that once started could easily get out of control as it becomes an easy crutch.



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  13. bcxanth

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    But honestly, what is wrong with it? What is the slippery slope it could lead to? Instancing is great because it allows the ability to add content to an area without slowing everyone's computer down by trying to display everything.
     
  14. Caveloot.com Owner

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    I have 9 houses on LOTRO, and i ditched the game the moment SotA was announced, and instanced housing was one of the reasons. And yes, for you LOTRO players, that is possible to do.. It just takes 6 accounts and a lot of characters and a LOT of time.

    As for reasons, ill toss out one.. No one ever sees it or uses it but you so its nothing more then a fancy bank vault.

    I believe theres their threads where people have discussed the topic in depth, id go hit those. I don't want to spend a lot of time or forum space resaying whats been said. Im lazy :)






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  15. bcxanth

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    So see, with that statement it shows that you're assuming something about what is being said that has not actually been said here in this thread. We're not talking about all houses being instanced. We were discussing apartments in an instanced apartment complex like what Asheron's Call had. You go through a portal/door/whatever area transition and find yourself in an instance full of apartments. Say two wings, 4 floors per wing, 10 apartments per floor, for a total of 80 apartments. That's 80 people that can see your decorations and admire, along with anyone visiting their apartments.

    So no negative impact for the game, no slippery slope, just limited features for those people who decide to go for the cheaper housing because they can't get a house.
     
  16. Namodias

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    No instanced housing of any sort for this game I say!

    Instanced housing in any form will devalue non-instanced housing plots instantly and is the way to kill the feel of housing the way they are designing it. Not everyone will get a home, thats just the way it is, scarcity in this design gives the housing system part of its character and worth.

    Now if someone has the ability and features built into the housing system where they can effectively rent out a room of their house then so be it. That adds function and scope to the system and by working within the provided mechanics can be something really interesting.

    Instanced housing is a curse to be avoided at all costs in my opinion.
     
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  17. bcxanth

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    Can you explain that please? You've made the claim with no specifics and I'd like to know how you're coming to that conclusion, because I don't see how that would be possible. If we're talking about an instance full of apartments that have fewer features than the non-instanced house, why would those apartments have any effect on the house?
     
  18. VZ_

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    @Namodias
    @bcxanth
    I don't believe instanced housing would devalue non-instanced either. Speaking from past examples, enabling housing everywhere in UO did not devalue housing that was considered 'better'. If nothing else, it gave players something to strive for.

    I personally would not want an instanced house at all, and I am sure a lot of people agree with me, however, I am sure there are many who don't care and if that means the difference between having a place and not, why not give them that option?

    I actually think instanced apartments would be kind of cool. Especially if the whole building was designed and the instancing would occur only at the apartment door level. Maybe 10 or so players per door limit to limit the amount of crowding around a single door.
     
  19. bcxanth

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    I get what you're saying there, and it would likely be a good way to save art resources for the devs. However doing that basically goes back to the point that Sir Stile and Namodias were making. If the outside all looks the same and the housing itself is in its own instance only you can see, then it turns it into basically a glorified bank vault. I do think that having an apartment building where others can see your decorations would be more fun.
     
  20. Sigma476

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    hey guys OP here,

    Just to recap it seems no-one is against the idea of apartments. However there is a heated debate going between the sirs and bcxanth over whether or not instanced housing matters.

    There, I just saved you a half hour of reading. If you feel grateful for this feel free to send a few gold my way when the game goes live.
     
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