Player owned apartments

How is there a difference? Every where I look on this thread is people making the generalization that making apartments available will somehow magically make a house less valuable. I know from experience with games that had both that it's not true, but still people are making that assumption. Well if the devs make an apartment building, or a player does, either way it's cheap housing that will then apparently drive the demand for a real house down.

 

I suppose the long established law of supply and demand is a generalization as well. Add more housing, the cost of each goes down.

If a player rents out rooms, he's adding a half dozen or so housing opportunities to the equation. If the devs build apartments, I would think they'd add hundreds or perhaps thousands of housing opportunities to the equation. It would take many, many players renting out space to have the same impact as the devs adding housing. Also, one represents game currency going from player to player. The other represents real cash going to Portalarium. So there's a couple of differences.

I wonder how many people that spent $500 would send angry emails to Portalarium demanding refunds, or partial refunds, if suddenly a cheaper form of housing would be introduced.

I think there would be far less outcry if Portalarium doubled the number of $500 houses, or added $500 apartments.

But really, we players don't know the number of plots planned or sold.
If we log in and find 25,000 plots waiting for us, the joke will certainly be on those of us that paid a lot of cash.

 

Right. That was also the point I was going to make. If a player decides to divide his house into 4 apartments and recieve in game currency from other players, thats just part of the in-game economy. If Portalarium starts making apartments, all it does is devalue houses without any house owning players benefiting.

On the topic of housing availability: RG early on said there would only be a few thousand village level plots, a few hundred town level, and a few dozen city level. Don't know if that's changed or not but that's what was said.

 

It's not a matter of us being rude and saying those who can't afford paying more early on shouldn't get a house. It's simple economics regardless of in game or in real life.

Fact is that we paid a premium for housing. Apartments would increase available housing significantly and although I'm not opposed to player owned housing that can be turned into apartments I am opposed to dev implementation of additional housing except when it's minimal with expansions.

Trashing our thoughts or responses isn't appropriate . Just because we do not agree with your desire to have apartments doesn't mean we are anymore wrong or right than you are.

That being said hope I didn't offend anyone, certainly not my intention.. Live long and.... Wrong game

 

As many have already pointed out, it's just the most fundamental economic principle of supply and demand. Any time you increase supply (even if it is a smaller type of housing like apartments) and demand remains constant, the price will go down. Availability matters. Those who are arguing for apartments should not try to believe that it won't, and should try to make their case on non-economic grounds.

If some still want to argue on economic grounds (bcxanth), here's how: in some way adding apartments increases demand (people who will play the game and want housing) and thus housing values will not necessarily take a hit. I find that hard to believe though.

 

First, let me say that I understand where those who paid money for a guaranteed house are coming from in not wanting what they paid for to be devalued. From the sounds of it...

... there is going to be limited housing of the actual house variety.

In my opinion, for what it is worth, I think there should be some sort of inn rooms that can be continuously rented, apartments or even barracks in the game. (With barracks I'd imagine a large room with many beds in the space. Maybe each bed has a spot for one chest but no wall space. These might be good for guilds, clans, etc?) Here is my reasoning.

This game is supposed to be a RPG, ROLE PLAY GAME. With what looks like possibly only a few thousand actual houses available and hopefully a few million players (the more the merrier) people who actually want to role play their character with character development etc are going to want to have a place where their character is 'staying'. Granted, many people will want to play explorers, traveling merchants, and other types of characters with backgrounds and personalities that lend to being homeless and wandering. There are even people who will want to play that street beggar. However, I imagine even some of them would appreciate renting an inn room, possibly for extended time, while they are in a specific city. Also, not everyone likes playing that sort of character. I don't think that obtaining a 'home' or rather a place to stay should be completely limited to only the limited actual houses. Everyone needs a place to be 'sick' or laid up with a broken leg. It's nice to sometimes have 'your room' where you can go slam the door in someone's face because they are no longer welcome after that insult they thrust upon you in the town square. Or your inn room where you can invite your new found friend for a cup of tea after barely surviving that spider attack together.

Now, that said, I am under the impression that the houses that were in the reward levels are rent free. I would assume any form of small one room housing, such as an inn, would require rent that needed to be paid every week or month lest you lose it and what you stored there is lost (or perhaps into their bank box?) I would also advocate that the amount of storage be small (if any). Possibly room for a bed, a small table with 2 stools and a chest at best. Maybe even no storage. I'd be OK with that. However, for people who are serious about the role play aspect of the game, if there aren't options and opportunities for new players/characters work up to a place to hang their hat, if that is the type of character and way to how they want to play, then a whole group of possible players may be turned off to the game. Not something anyone wants. I think most role players look forward to the opportunity to start small (a bank box) and slowly work their way up to whatever they are willing to put into the game (a room at an inn and then maybe, if it becomes available and you save up the immense sum necessary, an actual house.)

Also, I would presume that anyone who did not have the reward level house and later is able to afford an actual house that becomes available will have to pay for the house, possibly with an ongoing rent (which would be like tithing the local lord). This would mean those who have the reward level housing could live there infinitely without having to ever pay a coin in game or worrying about losing it. However, those who are in the inn, apartments, or eventually work their way up to one of the FEW available actual houses but don't have the reward will constantly be paying rent/tithes and need to secure an income in order to keep their land and house.

Just my 2 cents.

 

My personal thoughts about housing:

- i like to have a realistic chance to own a small hut - without playing the game like i would not have to go to work in real life...
- i like a good atmosphere - a nice beautifull place - not a crowded residential area.
- Housing and decoration was one of the most asked features in UO - so dont limit it to fulltime players and guilds.
other people will get frustrated verry quick. Especially when you look nowerdays on the server, you see no players but lots of unused houses,
that are blocked for those who play.
- Town houses have a bigger value, because they are in the center of towns and are much higher frequented by other players,
so people who bought a house on kickstarter have their extra value.

It would be fantastic if there would be zones out of the citys, where player could built their houses freely.
A server filter could save the map from beeing totaly filled up, by showing the personal home only to people that are invited by the player.
The house is stored localy the items are stored on the server. If you want your house to be seen by other players, ask them to link it up.
Your house is your SotA ingame facebook page that you can share with other players, - via a server filter - if you like to.

You can build social communities with your houses - and everyone gets one.

If you want more houses around, choose it, if you dont - you wont have them.

If people want to buy/sell stuff, they have to go to the city, - thats wat people did all the time.
I dont need 100 shops on 1 tile. Or i can choose a view selected Shops to appear on my map - if i like.

The ingame economy, especially the housing, shoud be compatible with people who have a job and a social life.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Otherwise this game is nothing for people like me.
I am an Ultima-Veteran i like to enjoy the game and dont want to farm for month
till i can buy a place, and when i am too late, there is nothing left for me.
In my spare time i drive honorary ambulance, and i am not going to shorten this because of building a virtual house in SotA.
Has a guy like me a chance for an own small hut in SotA ?

Last Point:
Please make housing more colorfull.
Add: Treehouses, Hobbit-holes, cave-homes etc. Something with a hidden enterance for example, there are so many posibilities to increase housing without filling the map with 10 or 20 ikea standart house models like in UO. A linking tile is enough to connect a living place with the global world.

They dont have to be big, but they should make the player to feel comfortable, to have a retreat to log out, to sit in a chair with a view friends and drink a virtual ale etc.

 

To just distribute houses to the real life wealthy players is probably what i dislike the most with SOTA.

They could have choosen other rewards then giving away these few available houses.

 

And how many do you think are upset cause SOTA developers decided to hand over the available few houses to a few real life rich people?

 

Portalarium knows that they don't want to reduce the value of houses. If instanced housing were to be done I'm sure they would implement limitations.

* Small in size - One room, can't display as much stuff.
* No front lawn. - No place to show off your stuff to passers-by.
* No vendors - Probably a given with no front lawn, but I put it here to make it obvious.
* No crafting tables allowed - If you craft, you still have to go to the public stations.
* Limited number of guests - Perhaps only one or three friends allowed in.
* No guests without owner - If the owner isn't there, no one gets in. If the owner leaves, everyone is kicked out.
* No sharing permissions with other people - Can't give anyone the ability to drop, move or pick up items.
* Not transferable. - You can't 'deed' the room over to someone else.
* Pricing scaled to village, towne, city - Closer to services/center of population are costlier.

Some advantages -
* Instead of starting and ending the day at the Inn/Pub/Tavern, players would be inclined to visit during play to drop stuff off, which may lead to more social interaction.
* Anyone who didn't have a desire to get a house might find that they like having a place of their own and they upgrade to a house.
* It gives someone who wants a house to have a stepping stone on the way there.
* It is a money sink that gives the player fair value in return.

Pricing could have some fluctuation perhaps, but I'd prefer it not be completely player driven.

 

I do not believe they have given away all of the available houses. There will be some open plots players can compete for after launch. They were looking for a way to raise lots of cash, and looked for what people found valuable. They correctly determined that people would contribute more money to be guaranteed a plot of land.

I'm curious what kind of reward you would suggest that would bring in lots of contributions.

 

I have no idea. I imagine a lot are disappointed.
I wonder how many people are upset that auto companies hand over luxury cars to rich people and not to everybody.

Portalarium decided that they wanted to make plots of land limited and valuable.

I was disappointed at the cost of housing, but after much thought, I decided it was worth sacrificing other forms of entertainment to be guaranteed a plot. Other things have happened since then that convinced me to contribute more money to the game. Low cost housing matters less to me than it once might have, because I've gone all-in. However, I think the average $500 contributor will have some regrets if something like apartments are introduced (I know I'll hear about it from two people).

Maybe I'm wrong.

 

Maybe something like that could work.
I don't know.

 

The luxury car comparison is a bad one.

Portalarium had a choice what to hand out, but i can understand that houses is something that rather easy raise money.

 

That is a ridiculous analogy.
We're talking about a GAME not cars.. Real life money(rich people, as you put it) should not dictate something as important as housing in a game.

If anything, those that pledged should have been given a plot of land with a timer on it.. Raise enough money in game to buy a house, put it on your plot.. Basically give you first dibs on getting a house with a nice view, but making you put effort into it still. If you can't raise it in a month or three, the plot becomes open. But instead, you login with a city front house..

I sense a hierarchy being put in place here, with those that pledged enough for a house putting themselves at the top of the pyramid.. With people that pledged enough for one posting in other threads that high level crafting tables only be available to those with houses, saying that there would be "rage" from their side if there were more plots available and their home value goes down, etc. WHO CARES?? You paid money to have a house and you got one.. If there ends up being more plots than you imagined available then it's not anyone else's fault that you paid 500-1000 dollars to get a house. Are you going to be mad if there are bigger houses/plots available in ep. 2-5? Or should the houses that come later stay smaller/more expensive than what you get in ep 1?
If that happens, it's no one else's fault that they get a better spot, cheaper house or just as good of a view and you had to pay for yours..

 

I also don't want to see abandoned city level houses four months in because someone had too much money laying around, funded for the house, got bored and left the game or only logs in once a month to keep it.

 

First class seating on an airplane?
Premium channels on cable?
Extra minutes, text, and data on cell phones?
The point is that Portalarium offered premiums to people to get them to contribute more.
If they had offered a single package that included everything and asked people to contribute as much as they wanted, I doubt they would have raised as much as they did.

I can't speak for everyone, but I've never advocated denying other players high level crafting tables or any other item.
I'll have to notify the Illuminati that you've figured out our plan to enrich ourselves and keep the lower classes down.

I have talked about plot value going down if apartments are added. Think about the law of supply and demand, and see if you don't agree.
Some people will get upset if lower cost housing are introduced. Portalarium said housing was going to be rare and valuable.
Based on my sample of 2 Citizens, I think a lot of people will be disappointed that they paid $500 if a cheaper option appears.

You ask "WHO CARES??". Well, you do. Look at your emotional outburst here.

If everybody gets housing, then Portalarium will have lied, and there will be rage. Mostly from the $500 level. People contributing more than that, including myself, are doing it for reasons other than to have a place to hang their hat.

I'm not going to be mad at all if there are bigger and better plots/houses in episodes 2-5. But we're talking about episode 1.

 

Frank, don't bother yourself talking with the unwashed masses. They will never understand.

 

It is a bit like trying to get PvPers and PvEers to live together in peace.

 

I don't think they changed anything however we did reach a stretch goal that doubled the size of the world since they said that.