Poll for Non-PvPers/ Idea for "Open World" compromise [UNOFFICIAL]

Liked after first line. Ok, now to read the rest of your post.

 

He's a mod. I don't know the story but he's putting his time in to Moderate. He can still have his own opinion and its not the same opinion of the devs or your counterparts. You gotta get over this personal grudge with a moderator. What's it matter?

 

Thank you for being one of the first to use PKK, if every one did that, there would be no need to elaborate further on a pk possibly being murderous.

Like ********, murder can be used without insult.

I gave the hammer a mighty swing and murdered my thumb....you caught me I'm a murderer.

Only a troll would pretend that murderer can't be used in a derogatory way.

In threads on the subject of traditional open PvP and full loot. It's usually always used in a derogatory way and accompanied by the words griefing.

With hundreds of threads on open PvP I was hoping this poll would be the last to stereotype, slander, and defame my preferred playstyle.

When something gets to far out of hand and abusive it needs to go away. Much like a racial slur, ******** is not the only word that needs to be stricken. The words used to defame the PvP playstyle need to be stricken, especially now that the argument is over and consensualism reigns.

The n-word was used up until slavery ended and many years later and even still today. An extreme example of a word that would warrant a perma- ban. None of the words we are talking about are that serious. The point is you don't know how offensive a word is to someone. Take their word for it. I stopped using the word ******** as soon as I learned it was offensive.

The more recent removal of ******** was the right thing to do, now we need to finish what is right and enforce the rules on the derogatory use of all words.

 

If you would have read it you would see that I stayed out of it. The mods have every right to voice opinion.

It wasn't me who called him on it.

Do the mods have the right to moderate the forums based on their opinions?

Do police have the right to not arrest their friends or not to arrest people who look nice, or maybe have the same ethnicity as they do? Opinions even?

Policing the forums must be a hard job with such strong opinions.

 

Please stop arguing simple semantics. We all know what you guys mean. PK and PKK were very widespread terms in UO when I played. So was murderer and ******** and PVP.

The new thing that's been introduced by other games like WoW is arenas and battlegrounds and "consensual PvP". The only consensual pvp UO had was joining a guild and sparing against your guildmates.

Arenas and battlegrounds are unnecessary and only a stop gap to satisfy the want to PvP in a safe game. We're recreating tons of other games if we go that route.

You can't have both worlds. Its all or nothing. People outside of the danger of PvP get perks. Full PvP'ers get perks. (based on SotA's current model they've been talking about). Somebody who just wants a realistic game gets the hose.

 

You're not staying out of it. And if you would stop playing victim your arguments would make much more sense. I want to side with you sometimes but then you go all negative and thinking someone is out to get you.

 

Serious.

All I wanted to do was reach a point where I could make sense of you, dude, but apparently asking someone to make logical sense makes me a troll. I'm so sorry I asked you to speak coherently.

 

@acrylic,

Don't make this thread into a personal argument about Ultima Codex. Its not really fair to him.

If you think, in general, there's a negative tone towards open PvPers on the forums and you believe it isn't warranted, start a new thread about it and explain your point of view.

 

I think he is a one of the better mods. He was managing to use the words over and over without being offensive. He is the exception, rarely are these words pulled together in a non abrasive way. It still annoyed at least one person though.

Redfish was saying that griefing and pking were two different things. I was showing Redfish an example of how the overuse of the two words together has made them synonymous.

Killer, murderer, griefer are all synonymous and approaching the point of meaning PvP. So much it's real hard to convince anyone that PvP is anything but those three words. Winner and Loser sound foreign when you've been brainwashed to believe PvP is always something horrid.

Don't get me wrong, I like the consensual PvP...I don't like the path we went down to arrive at the decision to make it that way.

 

I like Ultima Codex well enough. I was trying to point out that he thought the words had become synonymous.

I'm sure he has bad days, we are human. I started on one point that I agreed with and then got a little rant going that I didn't mean to really do.

Meh...I'm getting tired. At this point I will agree to about anything, especially being incoherent.

 

I don't like consensual PvP. It takes all the fun out of it. (and I'm a defender not an aggressor).

Consensual isn't even guild vs. guild. If you do that you're not set and ready to go all the time. Like a battleground where you show up and join all set and ready to go (that's the true definition of consensual PvP. The option to opt out of being available isn't the answer). Battlegrounds and duels, that's like a match, a sporting event....

Open world rules on PvP allow griefing. And people end up feeling griefed, because for better or worse, there's a lot of jerks out there who don't really care about the game but care about being the best and laughing at others.

This is the dynamic many "carebears" have gone through. Which is why they hate it. The only solution is to control those people, but no game has tried to control the problem. They just try to make it better for the people who are complaining.

So many types of PvP'ers and the bad ones ruin any chance of it being fun.

On the same vein, many "********" players just want to have the easiest path to riches and then sit around and show off what they have gained.

 

Do remember that logging in with your PvP flag up, and leaving it up all the time, counts as consensual. The devs are predicting a sizable population of people doing this, who will be open to each other's attacks at all times. There will be a secondary group who play sometimes on one side of the line and sometimes the other, who will, for all intents and purposes, appear to constant PvP players as PvP players who don't log in as much.

 

This all smells of political correctness. I refuse to redefine words based on political correctness.
PC = people attempting to enforce their version civility on others. But it's more often used as a weapon of control.

I understand that some will use the word ******** and murderer as a personal attack. I also understand that some will see the word and automatically assume it's being used as an attack.

I could care less what others do with the words. I don't need to be PC, I have manners and tact. I will use the word correctly, as I intend it. If I have reason for a person attack it will never be posted, that simple.

So let me be clear. In SotA, there are very few possible situations (with the info we have available) for someone to role play a murderer. In the same way a first person shooter that is set to free for all, you either attack or you don't.

When I talk about a player being a murderer it's a likely a reply to someone that wishes to inject that play style into SotA.

As far as derogatory terms, griefing is ambiguous and comes in all forms. It doesn't even have to be combat let alone PvP.

Murderer is different than ********. I have no idea how one would role play a ******** as it seems to be used to describe all play styles that are done with the PvP flag off.

 

It's always consensual, you either consent in game or at log in.

Many people already know they will not PvP. They don't know what it's like or if they will enjoy it, doesn't matter, they won't consent. With an in game option to consent they can be shown that PvP is actually enjoyable in SotA.

Every game I play, I start out with the intent to be PvP. It's the game mechanics, not the players, that makes me decide to walk away from PvP. With SotA, I don't have to quit and move on to a different game. I can opt out of PvP and keep playing, until the Devs decide to address what ever issues I have with PvP.

Build the perfect PvP system and I won't complain about full open PvP, until then, it's got to be consensual.

 

I won't do it if, in the same world as me, others are allowed to have it off. Why handicap myself that way if I'm not a killer?

See, my vision is to enjoy the world with other non-killers...against killers. But with these rules... I'll just be the poor guy that's dying to 10 PK'ers by himself. While opt out people are farming massive gold and rewards in complete safety.

See, I'm not a PK or an Anti-PK. I just like the realism of everyone being subjected to it. But everyone is not subjected to it...everyone is playing a different set of rules in a world where everyone should be equal.

 

Handicap? Isn't your game to PvP? Or is it to handicap those that are trying to do something other than PvP?

If you are PvPing, does it matter how you flag or if others are flagged? That's the game you are playing. If you are saying you want to keep others from doing what they want to do, because you want to PvP them, then in effect, you are handicapping them.

It's all about intent. Do you want to PvP, then PvP, why does it need to be with people that are engaged in something else.

 

I want to feel like I'm in a real and immersive world. PvP is what makes it realistic rather than just a grind of who can figure out how to manipulate the NPC monsters with their build the fastest. I don't want to be ganked by jerk players who have no respect for the world or the game and just want to brag. But it will happen. All these rules and divisions put in by the devs though, just complicate things and take it all out of the hands of the players and having responsibility for how you act and building your own social network to control your own game experience. Everyone knows griefing PK'ers are bad. Some are not griefers. I know on a normal UO shard people didn't see this much, but....

I'll never be able to explain it. Give us the tools. Make everyone equal and subject to the same dangers. Punish the jerks. Maybe a judicial system in game where players banish a griefing player after he's had a chance to defend himself. All these mechanical controls on our interactions will just deplete the game. Yeah, we'll all still play at first. We'll have fun. But this is Ultima. Can we do something better than the same old grind gold and battle grounds and quests?

 

@Rezulm

Just so you know. I heard your intent the first time you said it and every time you said it after that. You do not want to murder or grief anyone.

Good luck convincing anyone of that.

 

Huh. Well, as one of those "farmers", I have in the past accumulated my fair share of wealth, but it didn't feel very safe. Most of the time the cash I could get by doing safe stuff was pretty weak, so I wound up doing dangerous stuff that killed me a lot or kept me very very challenged. Sometimes I'd PvP, sometimes I'd join or lead groups in group content. Even then, though, I never made HUGE ammounts of money. The thing that made me the most money ever in any MMO was trading on the open player market, selling things I had made with my maxxed out crafting skills.

I don't think a persistent PvP flag would really have done anything but add in a couple hundred annoying mass ganks. I just can't see the appeal.

 

The decision to make it that way was made back when the game was announced...it wasn't a surprise. I don't get why people keep thinking this was new...if anything getting full worl open pvp for those that wanted it was a change from the original announcement.