Poll: PVP or PVE - Which Are You? [UNOFFICIAL]

My guess :,Your viewpoint IS the minority Ara, probably even by a long shot.

You are severely underestimating how many of the 30k+ backers are not interested in any of those things you are passionate about, but just want to play an RPG game.

 

Because 220 players is not even a percentage point of the number of players who have backed this game. The poll does not have statistically enough responses nor a random cross section to be scientifically valid. Therefore its useless to base any kind of design decisions on, let alone ones that could cause thousands of backers to leave.

 

I can't really vote because I have no idea of what it would be like. Even if we had 100% PvP anytime anywhere I'd try it. I don't know whether I want it or not yet. They haven't explained the death or murder mechanics yet so it would be hard for me to pick any of these options. I would be OK with full loot though.

 

When institutes ask what party would you vote for if there was an election today they use arround 1000 human beings.

That poll is considered to be pretty accurate (some % this or that way).

So this poll from arround 220 pledgers say alot.

And i doubt very much it would be much difference with say 1000 voters.

So the vast majority want full loot and i see no reason developers should decide for anything else.

 

75% of partisans in a forum dedicated to a minority interest. I'm as big a supporter of open PvP and full loot as anyone here, but statistically speaking, this poll is worthless. I am interested neither in self deception, nor in the attempted deception of the devs on this subject. Gladly, it appears that the devs remain undeceived

 

That is totally incorrect, go research how polls work, why they talk about margins of error, and what +- means. Also research how TRUE random polling works. I have taken many courses in this and you will be shocked what you learn. You PERCEIVE that this is a fair poll, but in reality it is not. Even the choice of questions in this poll is not chosen correctly.

Its almost impossible to analyze the results of this poll because it is so heavily flawed in every respect, but my guess is that almost no one has even seen it. This is most likely because its (a) in the PvP forums and (b) the vast majority of people may not even be active on the forums.

It is more than 99.5% likely that the results of this poll are useless, dont accomplish their stated goal, and are highly skewed in their results. And yes, I ran a stastical model that told me this, which clearly showed the 'p' value of the results was terrible.

I wont be giving you more statistics lessons. If you want to know more, go take some classes.

 

Those who are not active in game development process (the forums) should not expect their demands or expectations to be met.

Have the devs ever directly polled the community on this subject? They must have gotten some data since Darkstarr said the majority of the community wants zero non-consensual PvP. Or are they going by the opinions of the high dollar pledges who they have personally met?

 

The problem with this poll is that it exhibits several selection biases.

First, it draws only on that part of the gaming population that has contributed to SotA. 25000 out of millions of gamers worldwide.

Second, the poll only samples those contributors active on these forums, which is only hundreds from among 25000.

Third, the poll is in a forum dedicated to PvP, which represents a very specific self serving selection bias. Of those who monitor the forums, supporters of PvP are a minority, and those who support Open PvP are a minority of a minority, and those who support full loot are a minority of a minority of a minority.

I'm honored to be one of the few, the proud, a full loot advocate, but I recognize that I am by far in the minority in that support.

I hope that there may be a provision for full loot for those who want to participate, but it will only be by consent for a minority of SotA players. It certainly won't happen because it's such so darn popular.

 

I suspect the devs are considering the desires of the majority of their potential customers. Contributor input is important, but they won't act on contributor suggestions that would limit their profitability. I think they have decided that full loot detracts from the overall success of the game, so if full loot ever becomes a feature in SotA, it won't be a universal feature.

 

That is not correct. The devs will ignore the masses at their peril, even if they don't post all the time. If an incorrect choice is made against the mass will, it could spell disaster for the game.

 

I just want to know how the devs determined that the masses would not tolerate the potential for non-consensual combat. Are they basing it off of other successful/unsuccessful games? Are they risk adverse? Is this a knee jerk response to UO? Etc.

I never Pk'd anyone in UO and consider myself a Blue adventure. My friends and I always refer to UO when reminiscing over past games -and we ran über guilds in WoW and EQ1. A game can only provide so much content, it's player interaction that makes the game special.

Sorry, went off on one of my tangents again - I guess I'm just tired of the "safe" games.

 

I don't think Nonconsentual PvP has ever been a SotA design goal, not for the perfect RPG Garriott has in mind. Garriott is interested first and foremost in the story he wants to tell, and the environment he wants to create. I'm glad that he is making provisions for different gaming styles, because he could easily have elected to go pure PvE. PvP and RPG are features that don't easily coexist. But while he is trying to recreate the feel of the original Ultima single player games, he also wants to recreate the most successful features of Ultima Online. From his experience, Nonconsentual PvP was not one of the most successful features, as indicated by the necessity of the Felucia/Trammel split.

Having learned from that experience, PvP in SotA will be by consent only, which I think is a good idea.

 

Out of all the developers of all the games, I think this particular team, and especially the leaders of the team, probably have the most intimate knowledge of the numbers behind UO - I seriously doubt they would have a "knee jerk response" to it.

I'd like to propose a rule that when people say things like this they add "TO ME" at the end. I am tired of people making blanket statements, no matter what their personal beliefs are.

 

For this game to be successful the dev must look at all players equally, you can't listening more to a certain group of players more just because they are more vocal on boards and chat. Devs need to look at all players and try to decide a path they think will bring most players to their game but even here there is a catch. You want the type of player that will stay with the game and not just jump to nest game that comes out. Today gamers are more volatile then for a few years ago and for a game like SotA it's important to get players that are here for the long run.

 

Take a look at the dev team, their curriculum vitae. This isn't a team of up and coming devs. They have been in the game making industry for a long time, many of the are pioneers. Seeing games come and go, rise and fall, because of the decisions made during the design process is part of the job.

I can't imagine any one group having more first hand knowledge of this subject.

Besides, if you have followed Richard Garriott you know that he does not do something just because. He builds a world based on principals. The foundation is set and everything added reinforces that foundation.

This game will have risk vs reward, death will have it's sting, the time to step into that risk will be up to the players. It is possible to design a new system that no one has seen before that will provide the play style people want without segregating players into impassable boundaries.

Ultimately, they do not want the choice to PvP to be at purchase.

 

Very good point! I suspect this is why they reached out to the hardcore, free, UO, PvP shards for support.

 

This poll say alot.

It have all options available and 75% voting positive to full loot say that the PvE only players are the minority. The majority of pledgers of SotA want full loot.

The only ones trying to deceive developers here are the ones that claim this poll is worthless.

 

How many of your PvP friends have you pointed to this poll?

How many of your PvP friends ONLY visit this section of the forums?

How many people have more than 1 account?

The list can go on but the fact is a sample group say more about a poll than any % could ever.

 

A majority of people that agree with me can be said to agree with me. That says nothing about the population as a whole.

I'm not discounting your poll because I don't want Open PvP/Full Loot. I am discounting your poll because I'm not innumerate.

 

You are saying you know more than the innumerable scientists and mathematicians and statisticians who invented statistics and polling theory?