POSSIBLE PVP "Holy Grail" solution that we all might be able to live with?

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Quetzalcoatl, Apr 1, 2014.

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  1. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl Avatar

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    I just want to say, PVPing is something that I don't do but can if need be. I sat and thought and thought of a possible solution might answer that great question we all have been pondering on how PVPERS/NON-PVPERS coexist in the same world and be happy. This MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be a way to make us all a bit happier. Although its important to understand that "to get a little you have to give a little" whether you are a pvper or non-pvper. A successful world is a world of ppl we like and ppl we do like. Cant have Ying without Yang.

    I will try to explain as best as possible with the following guidelines;

    PVPer
    • You must activate yourself in PVP mode. Probably similar to how most games do it with a cool down after combat to activate off.
    • You can attack anyone. (Yes, even non-pvpers)
    • If you kill another PVPer you can loot them to whatever limits PVPers want to decide.
    • When you die from PVPing you will come back to life however they decide will be the norm. That is whether you have to walk to a healer or run to a church or what have you.
    • You and your items take all normal penalties as planned by the norm for the game.. EX: fighting an npc would damage items, curse, diseased, etc..., or whatever is involved, would function normally.
    NON-PVPERS
    • You can deactivate yourself in the same manner as activating yourself stated in the "PVPer" outline.
    • You can't INITIALLY attack any other players but can attack if you are defending yourself after being attacked. EX: I'm chopping for wood and I'm in NON-pvp mode. And a guy sees me who is in PVP mode and he attacks me. I am able to defend myself and fight back.
    • If you, by some chance kill a PVPer, you are able to loot him to the limits of the PVPer's loot rules.
    • If you die from a PVPer you will be able to be resurrected instantly if you want. And you cannot be looted. Also yourself and items will take no negative penalties from that death. (that means no loss in durability in items, skills, or whatever.)
    • In addition from dying from a PVPer, you will not be able to be killed for 1 hour from the same PVPer. So that fixes the fact that if someone wants to just keep killing you. Although you could still be killed by another PVPer. So, if you were killed by PVPer #1, 30 minutes ago, and PVPer #2 killed you, PVPer #2 couldn't kill you for another hour and PVPer #1 would still have to wait 30 minutes to kill you. Separate timers initially.

    BOTH PVPers/Non PVPERS
     
  2. herradam

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    So, PVE'rs are just sheep to be picked off for no real gain?
     
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  3. Fireangel

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    I like you, Quetzalcoatl, but I don't like your idea. I'll post my summary later to explain myself.
     
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  4. Quetzalcoatl

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    DOH!! it didn't post the ending of my original post so here it is.

    BOTH PVPers/Non PVPERS
    * We all can coexist in the same environment.
    * We have more ppl to play with, fight with, fight against, sell too, etc...

    "HAve to give a little to get a little"

    I know i haven't thought of everything but thats what our community is for, to find solutions. If there has been a post with similar idea, i missed it. Give constructive feedback. thanks
     
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  5. vjek

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    That's a negative, Ghost Rider.

    The current thinking of being able to flag yourself for consensual open pvp, anywhere, along with resource attractants for dynamic player conflict scenes would seem to offer players more choice and attract a wider potential demographic.

    tl;dr Just say "No" to Ganking Sheeple! :D
     
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  6. PrimeRib

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    The problem is you're trying to solve "how" without "why." If you have good reasons why PvP exist, how just falls into place. Because people will either:
    1) Not care enough and just avoid the PvP. This is fine. From a PvPers point of view, this takes the "carebears" out of the equation.
    2) Decide that even though PvP is somewhat distasteful, the reward is worth the risk.
    3) Love PvP, and find ways to do it all the time.

    All of this is easy, if there's a good "why." If "why" is simply to pick on weaker players and take their gear, no set of rules in the universe will make things work.
     
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  7. Quetzalcoatl

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    What should the gain be?
     
  8. vjek

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    One idea among many:
    A larger, world-changing plot mechanic that offers tangible persistent effects, either covering regions or the entire map, ultimately.
    Ideally, tied in with team based goals and efforts that require all aspects of gameplay (crafting, monster conflict, player conflict, diplomacy, politics, etc)
     
  9. Quetzalcoatl

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    I'm interested in understanding more, can you give an example? Scenerio?
     
  10. rune_74

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    The problem with that is then the game becomes focused on a PVP mentality. Where PVP drives the game and not the game itself.
     
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  11. vjek

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    Doesn't have to be, all of those goals can have multi-faceted loops/tasks that all play styles can contribute to.

    My sig link has a/some pdf's that outline various aspects of the idea. In particular, this one.
     
  12. Quetzalcoatl

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    I have read your pdf file on your suggestions. Interesting.

    But am still a bit unclear on some things. So bare with me. Lets start simple if you don't mind. Excluding any outside ideas or suggestion for the most part.

    "I'm' a man who doesn't have combative type of skills and am only interested in trade and crafting. I am chopping a tree and a person who makes a living killing people, for whatever the reasons or goals, kills me. Explain for me how both parties benefit? Further more, how do both sides benefit without leaning toward one than the other?"
     
  13. herradam

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    I'm not suggesting that there should be a gain for pk'ing people who want no part of pvp. I just don't see a point in an arrangement such as you've laid out. If I can walk up and kill someone who isn't interested in engaging me in pvp, what's the point? I can't take his loot and I can't come back and pk him later. I may as well just kill a mob and receive something. Unless you're simply indulging the anti-social behaviour of a very small group of players.

    I believe that all pvp encounters need to begin with consensual engagement. Otherwise, like I said, you're simply privileging the anti-social tendencies of a minority of players.
     
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  14. vjek

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    That scenario isn't going to be possible in Shroud of the Avatar, with the current thinking on PvP. If it was, these forums wouldn't be here, and the game wouldn't be funded, in my opinion.

    The in-game economic and social damage from no-rules non-consensual combat is historically demonstrated in the genre. Every game that has ONLY that as the entire focus of the game has a smaller audience than games with rules and restrictions. Even Eve has rules and restrictions, despite it being trotted out as the only financial success for PvP focused persistent multiplayer online titles.

    If you're talking about purely hypothetical situations, Quetzalcoatl, I'm afraid I'm not your audience. I'm only interested in discussing practical implementation details on this topic. In particular, those that fit within the current framework as outlined by Portalarium, or at least within the same "spirit" they seem to be developing with.
     
  15. Quetzalcoatl

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    Is there a solution that you can provide to smooth out, fix, or even replace the idea I proposed that will be beneficially for both parties involved in the above scenario? And I say this in a way so that we both can have a productive conversation and not to antagonize your opinion or suggestions.
     
  16. Quetzalcoatl

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    When I initially started this thread, it was to make an attempt to address some solutions . I can respect your opinions and perspective. We can finish by saying we agree to disagree on addressing this particular solution. Thank you for your responses and input and participating in a dialogue with me.
     
  17. herradam

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    I think it's just over-complicating what should be a relatively simple system. Many of the issues such as being pk'd over and over are solved by a simply pvp flag. As for looting, I'm of the opinion that a full loot system would probably be best.

    At the very least, full loot should be implemented right out of the gate and then adjusted based on the feedback of the pvp community.
     
  18. Ristra

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    The problem is your question is framed with an intent that is not likely in SotA. UO, with skill caps, this was a position players could be in due to limited options. In SotA, the only reason a player would be in this position is if the player intentionally avoided obtaining combative type skills.

    Combat and crafting skills are different experience trees. A player will not have to choose to be one or the other.

    That and your question is framed with the premise of two people competing and both should be winning.

    What you are trying to get at, I can only guess, what is in it for the victor and the victim. This is a "why do we PvP" question. When PvP has a purpose, the reward is within that purpose. Open PvP, the purpose is PvP itself, winning or losing is what happens. The victim's only goal is to not be the victim, nothing else.
     
  19. Floors

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    After watching the PvP & Death Deep Dive, it explains so much about how PvP is gonna work, or their ideas for it. I'm psyched now



    pvp flag, you can fight anyone with the pvp flag on, you can't attack anyone with pvp flag off, but some hexes are pvp only zones so you have to flag to pvp to get in.

    so even in the safe zones you can still go pvp in there if you want. and you'll see pvp even if you're flagged safe.

    full loot, but when people loot they become vulnerable so you can defend your friends' corpses. ransom system so if you can pay up you can keep your good stuff

    corpse trophies, maybe even making corpse pies :)

    Sounds great
     
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  20. Curt

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    So think any will name their character Sweeney Todd and work with PvP and cooking?
     
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