Purchasing votes for episode 2.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bubonic, Jun 26, 2018.

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  1. majoria70

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    The answers for the vote idea are getting lost in pages and pages of opinions of the game and opinions of how port has done things since 2013.

    The point of the thread imo is about the vote. Again voting for stretch goals that should all be features of the game one day is silly.

    First off it divides the community even more than it is and secondly any cash being thrown at the vote gets divided into sections of cash for choices people want.

    So then let's say the winner stretch goal gets chosen. What then? Any monies given for other stretch goals gets taken and used for the stretch goal that wins. It is such a silly plan. Plus some already bought the full stretch goals in the past. What are we going to do buy them again? @DarkStarr.

    Funding episode 2 should by far be more fun and creative. Not something causing a more broken community. Can you hear?

    I have always said even though the game has been created with lack of focus to finish things there is still so many things that turned out being beautiful and sand boxy.

    There is still an opportunity to finish episode 1 and then that gives us a great start to funding an interesting episode 2 kickstarter. @Lord British please call off the vote. There are so many ideas for funding here and every where on the forums. Such as really cool game packages including special versions of some of our upcoming features coming into the game such as mounts, boating, etc.

    Edited
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  2. Canterbury

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    Um, define "always" for me please. I barely post here anymore. Indeed, prior to "launch" I took a year off posting. So if I barely post, and rarely mention this, how am I "always" doing it?!?

    And I'd also simply ask you to read what I said in context. If the money's not there... it's not there. Asking people to pay twice is not a solution to ANY businesses problem. That's a simple fact.

    Also, last time I looked, there were 18 likes on the post you're complaining about. I'm not saying stuff that lots of others aren't already thinking. I don't know what else I can tell you, honestly.
     
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  3. digriz

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    How is insulting him helpful or civil?
     
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  4. Lace

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    +1
     
  5. Lace

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    I agree and wish there were more micro transaction types of things (the pattern packs area good example of this) ... still feel the heraldry costs are far too high for those that already paid for it with their pledges for the 'approval' yet old or new player no matter if already approved pays again and again for this approval process on each purchase. I know I know I post about this constantly but eternal pattern for a banner .. who is damaging it? really? and make me buy 2 different types or pay extra coto ... hehehe I won't stop beating this dead horse.
     
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  6. Lace

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    IF they do the stretch goals like the last time your money does get you an item(s) which if the goal isnt met you get to have as a rare. For example the pack animal thing from EP1 .. I got saddle bags and donkeys and got to have a western inn room in my pot (giggle) with instead of pole dancers, saddle dancers .. kinda like that scene from Urban Cowboy. I am kidding a bit here but you do get 'something' if its done the same way.
     
  7. Lace

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    I understand how you feel how you do. But what 12-13 million is less than a 40th the money it takes to make say a fallout or dragonrealms etc game which typically has a shelf life of a year or so, much less a planned 5 year or so time of new content development each month.

    I get what you are saying but the backer payments for this game for the systems we have gotten are pretty good in comparison to triple a's and their cost in production. 13 million versus 400 million so keep that in mind too.
     
  8. Lace

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    Keep in mind we have far fewer devs a few years ago, they ramped up now ramping down, its cyclical. Core systems are built for what we have and that code gets reused, tweaked etc.

    As for stretch goals they don't get met from 5k purchases .. typically the most I have seen in a stretch goal full bundle was a couple hundred bucks but many little things at 5-10 dollars which is how they got funded not big whale dollars.

    Not agreeing or disagreeing with your point of view just trying to shed some light on how it was and its not a cry for 5k a pop these were on smaller donation scales with a unique item you got to keep whether the goal was met or not.
     
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  9. Lace

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    The old system had you locked with x number of possible skills meaning when your party needed a healer you could not be one unless you had a million levels etc.

    I understand your thought that it was 400$ plus folks that made this decision but I can say I would have had a hard time forming groups just like in every other MMO where you can be only one thing Tank, Healer, DPS and that is it. I love being able to swap and glad this decision was made, but I get your frustration.
     
  10. Lace

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    Make a suggestion hun! Post it in wishlist.
    Plenty have and I will name a few I made /tiphat /heartattack, writable signs (ability to post flyers on walls but that came in as bulletin board - for that I think I have them some links to unity design for that even) and some others I forget off top of my head. YOu post the idea and folks on the forums will comment and stuff and even when not a stretch goal or part of their plans, they do take notice!

    A player Eniko I think it was did the unity music development which is why we have instruments

    There have been tons of suggestions made on the the general forums which have made it in the game and no stretch goal or voting per se involved .. Yeah others on forums liking it and furthering the idea helps but it wasn't financial voting.

    Keep your chin up and share your idea
     
  11. Lace

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    As a dev for well not quite 40 years but over 30 I agree and disagree. Iterations allow you to make course corrections on 'your' vision and the client vision. I think that is why I like how Port has done most things, they have embraced the course corrections even with our whining in trying to secure their vision. I think they do listen to the community and while some feel they only listen to some, I don't feel that is true but each person has their own thoughts on this.

    I do not feel in this day and age you can be too steadfast in your vision and not embrace the consumer vision as well. Maybe I am not comprehending your points as well as I should, but I think flexibility (to a point) is necessary in SDLC.
     
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  12. Lace

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    So I know yall may think I been a post whore commenting on everyone's thoughts but I wanted to read the whole thread nod or shake my head or maybe shed light where some were discouraged who were not around for the stretch goals from episode 1.

    We all know that we can have our opinions colored by not reading the whole story and just wanted to enlighten those I could who may not have the whole story.

    With that said I understand the OP's Original thoughts that systems for Ep2 via a stretch goal are not the best idea, but to the dev team voting with your dollars gives them a focal point. I think the problem with stretch goals is the 'reward' given by backing. Take for example pack animals from EP 1. You could get saddles or baby horses or donkeys etc. This was attractive to me so I bought some.

    If the stretch goal doesn't have good 'now' rewards it is likely to fail (flexible placement had crappy tents in ep1 to back it)

    Think about telethons, those with crap rewards do poorly (darkstarr stuff tons of cash, the last one kinda meh, the cough 'air navy' did well.

    So if the stretch goal rewards aren't good, they won't do well and it won't get funded.

    It is voting with your wallet but I don't think its so much about the goal most times, its about the 'now' reward.

    So instead of saying I won't back because of broken promises .. back to get the phat loot you like and let the chips fall where they may on the actual system hehehehehe

    In closing:
    We had many stretch goals not met in ep 1. We had A TON OF NEW THINGS done that were not on the map for EP 1. So why I can whine here and there, I do have to sometimes remind myself of all the extra things that were done without stretch goals.
     
  13. Vyrin

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    I agree, and the language gets a little hard to nail down as to what people consider vision to be. As I mentioned, I agree with flexibility and there can be more or less depending on the situation (think of a government contract for example). That's why I quoted the KS... I think in that model, consumers express their support for a proposed vision by backing the project. It's very hard after the fact to guage actual community-wide buy-in for any changes to that vision (people drift in an out, there are always those who are more/less vocal, etc.). A KS isn't a contract, but I think it's very important to express what you intend to deliver vs. what you are going to merely aim for as the development continues because it's still real money that's involved. It's also important to see that certain principles (I don't care which) are being used to guide the development as it moves forward (we are this/not this because what we said at the beginning is still what we want to do). I grant that in a game like Shroud which tries to be so many different things (too many?) and opens-wide the doors of community input, it's extremely difficult. One thing I hope no one can argue with is that they work harder to establish some clarity around this for Episode 2, work to make sure they don't overpromise/underdeliver, and work to make sure the end product is a little more consistent with vision laid out in the KS.
     
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  14. Ristra

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    You can only do that so long before you realize that Port isn't going to respond. Much less have a conversation with people about this stuff.

    Fatigue has set in. Port has chosen their course and I don't have it in me to watch them sale (pun intended) away from anything that resembles a spiritual successor of anything Ultima.
     
  15. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Is there a post or something your refering to? Im not seeing anything about episode 2 other than in this thread
     
  16. Burzmali

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    Another reminder, respecing was once a thing.
     
  17. Bubonic

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    It's from the "Company Status" thread.
     
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  18. Arkah EMPstrike

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  19. Jimmy Cliff

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    I would hope the devs would bring us something new, so we can discover a new like in our lives. catering to what certain people think they will like does not seem like a long term winning strategy.

    please do not give me more warning points for my dissent.
     
  20. marthos

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    Mixed feelings here as well.

    On one hand, it makes a lot of sense. If a feature cost $50k for developers/artists to implement, and I hand over $50k to Port and say "build this feature" - cool. The game benefits and I get what I want. Same thing if you replace me with 1,000 folks each giving $50. The players are directing the development of the game (good) and the company is immediately breaking even on the feature (also good).

    On the other hand, there is a risk of players spreading themselves out so thin that no feature is implemented. The money goes into essentially a black hole as the features aren't funded enough to see the light of day. Port gets the money, players get nothing, creating bad feelings and resentment.

    I think the easiest solution here is to not charge players until there are enough pledges to implement the feature.
     
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