PvP Scaling Danger Zones

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by Hemswal The Descended, Mar 26, 2019.

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  1. Net

    Net Avatar

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    I know some people who would not just play when forced into PvP, mostly based on previous experience with assholes who abuse no consequence PvP to simply grief players.
    I personally do not like current state of PvP for two reasons.
    1) The loot sucks, I like my stacks of reagents and artifacts. However for more serious PvP I should all the time get rid of valuables. And if by some miracle I win PvP fight the attacker more often than not went out of their way not to have anything valuable on them. I lose stuff if I lose and I lose time if I win. The way I play it, any PvP is pretty much lose for me.
    2) My friends appear as enemies in PvP unless they are in party. I need reputation system to see player as neutral by default, with option to mark them as friends or enemies (if they attack me or my party members, they should be marked as enemies). I want known "criminals" to be visibly enemies. I am okay if there are ways to play around the reputation system (anything goes in Shardfalls or arena, but you face severe penalties for starting a fight in major city and not changing your looks after that). PvP without reputation is not the way I enjoy it at all. I mean it is okay for some fun duels with about equally matched opponent in the arena, but otherwise it is damn hard to team up with the right guys.

    I think most people need some sort of safe zone, and they might enjoy high risk zone, but not everyone plays glued to the monitor, and you can get to safety from NPC attacks without having to log off rather easily. Not so much in PvP.
     
  2. Stryker Sparhawk

    Stryker Sparhawk Bug Hunter

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    Any game where the new player and the town social purveyor has to constantly feed a guard meter is not this game and is really a non-starter.
     
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  3. Lily Byrd

    Lily Byrd Bug Hunter

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    I can see my play would be severely restricted to only a small portion of Novia if these pvp zones are created.
     
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  4. Sarek

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    I still fail to see the problem, you can flag PVP and fight anywhere in game - literally anywhere vs some zone which are PVP only. What more do you need than a population to fight right? Then you get the statement being PVP centric will bring in players, were are they you can do it now? Forcing that play style on everyone will lose a portion of the player base who get different things out of the game - simple as that. It's not a default response to PVP but a simple fact that some people play the game to relax and don't need all the drama and venom that seems to follow the PVP topic. Look at the degrade because someone disagreed, sad really. You don't have the population for PVP, there are no in game blocks to it - maybe people just don't need the drama in there already aggro filled lives? How would you feel if I suggested to remove PVP completely, removing your playstyle? Because that's what your suggesting to me? Then the name calling starts when I say I am not ok with it from the very PVP community you are trying to promote in a positive light by selling a mechanic which on paper sounds nice but I know the leopard and it still has spots as can be seen by any with eyes..

    As for farming in private and blowing up the market I am lucky if I get two hours a day, so that ain't me. The two hours I do get to quest or collect some material to make something or build something which add value to the game or just sit by the river and fish - I don't want forced PVP scaling or not. Have to deal with enough all day long thanks, gaming is leisure time for me not a job or a competition on who has the biggest ewanger. I am looking forward to building my own story arc which I can share with the community to building quests and dungeons comparable to the PVE content - not once have I complained about PVP only zones or resorted to name calling. In fact this is my first comment in a thread on PVP... You can fact check that if you like, maybe it's time for a move to offline mode and save myself some money - maybe I am just having a low tolerance day.
     
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  5. oplek

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    While I'd say risk is a factor, a bigger factor for me is dying to PVP without my consented participation, period. It's not something I'll allow, loss or no loss.

    This is yet another example of PVP ideas always devolving into forced-victimization of people who had joined the game under the promise of consensual PVP, which is at the very core of the game, regardless of player count. As usual, such ideas start with the assumptions that PVP gameplay is the only correct gameplay, and is intrinsically more fun than PVE... because they personally think so, and obviously those who disagree are just factually incorrect about what they themselves find fun.

    "Asking for more immersion" is not a straight 1:1 translation into "PVP".

    PVP is not required for player count. Stardew Valley has an average of 12,850 concurrent players right now (edit: On Steam... that doesn't count any other platform ports), without PVP. This notion is false.
     
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  6. Scanphor

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    Needs to allow a permanent opt out of PVP without paying for guards etc for those that want to play the game without any PVP (and in line with the fully optional PVP promised from day one)
     
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  7. Ben_Hroth

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    Generally I have not PVP'd much in my decades of gameplay but when there was a promise of innovative gameplay in Blood Bay, I signed up.

    The correlation between PVP and people wanting to spoil other people's fun seems weak in Shroud of the Avatar. With the exception of one or two people, I've noticed that (even when I'm getting my butt handed to me) the PVPers are pretty solid and mature.

    As to OP's idea, I think having guards serve a purpose makes a ton of sense, and support this. I remember stealing from merchants in Ultima ][, and using walls of a building to stall guards and get away! (Ah, good ole '80s AI) Bringing first that light PVE mechanic (stealing from NPCs) to more EVP (guards going after the thief) to eventually PVP (other folks getting involved with the guards) makes a lot of narrative sense and adds dimension and immersion without Portalarium having to come up with content with their skeleton crew.

    My idea after trying Blood Bay was that there should be an emphasis on "deer" when it comes to the "wolves and deer" in PVP. Are you a resource gatherer or a great crafter? Well if you resource gather in Blood Bay (or another predetermined PVP zone) you can gather resources that are extra-powerful for PVP playstyle. Similarly if you craft (doors should be able to be lock picked, please) in Blood Bay you can craft equipment or furniture that is extra-powerful for PVP playstyle. This gives the wolves something to chase after and the deer something to gain protection from without necessarily being great at PVP fighting.

    Again, all this additional immersion and playability without laboring Portalarium to come up with art, assets, and so on - I think it just adds more to the world. I'm also all for the evolution of the Obsidian Trials (even though I can't seem to kill anyone worth their salt in PVP) but I wanted to add two cents to other aspects of PVP.

    Ben
     
  8. Aeryk

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    I love the idea of giving PoT owners the opportunity to setup rule sets like this. The key is that this remain opt-in, and i believe that is the intent. I'm not so sure specifically about the guard mechanic, it was mostly annoying for both PvP types and and non-PvP types in UO from my perspective, but more i love the idea of exploring these types of things. Mostly i'm in favor of doing, then testing to see what is working. I am 100% flagged with 2/3 of my characters (barring party play of course), but do not get much interesting interaction. Mostly my characters (not quite at 80's for their combat skill trees) are squished. Not a complaint, just an observation. I think we are getting the ability to level cap PoTs at some point, and we already have level capped areas. The risk/reward is still something that needs continuing work of course, and i believe this is what Hemswal is attempting to address. Kudos for putting the ideas out there. We have to surface the ideas to make any progress!
     
  9. Hemswal The Descended

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    The is an option in game to ignore people. Just block them.
     
  10. Cyin

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    Oh don't get me wrong I could care less if they call me names. I am just saying if you want a group to support your playstyle then name calling may not be the best avenue to take.
     
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  11. Weins201

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    SOOOO lets see what we already had / have.

    First there has always been the ability to Flag PvP and the risk is another PvPer anywhere in the world the loot (the stuff from the PvP Kill) has always been low.
    2nd there has ALWAYS been the ability to Duel which is a zero loos ((Lowest risk possible)) fights.
    3rd Shardfalls have ALWAYS been there and in them you enter and are PvP flagged, the risk is low from a PvP POV, and the Loot from Mobs has always covered the full gambit of MOBs lowest level to the highest, ALWAYS been there. There has ALWAYS been an Arena area, I have only seen it used a few times.

    Decay was removed from PvP do not remember if this was from the beginning or just after.

    They made a few changes to Shardfalls to increase the Reward just for entering, and that resulted in some of the best resources possible, They left the PvP risk low - the result NOT ONE THING CHANGED. A few more players ventured there to take advantage of the "rewards" but it ended up just being not worth it.

    Time ticked by, there was talk of this AWSOME new dungeon that was going to be PvP and it would have GREAT rewards for the risk. (( Breaking a promise that rewards in the game would never be in a place that required PvP, yet the fall still has some of the best items avail only in that area )) Anyhow it launched and is still running to day, the reward for playing there is good, the risk for PvP is still low.

    More talk of a "Bucs Den" - Blood Bay came out and housing was introduced there, for about 1 month it was a hopping place as houses poped up here and there and people fought over them. BTW in Blood Bay Decay has N E V E R happened even in the PvM fight. BTW there are mobs there from fairly easy Elementals to a Mechanical Dragon in a Progressive Spawn area. As well as a few Quests. This is a dead zone, it can be attenuated but no on bothers. WHY? Because if you are working to attenuate why would you risk a PvP fight which is just an annoyance. PvP risk still has not changed however the reward for PvM was better than almost anywhere .

    Changes have been recently made to blood bay to even more increase the Reward for just entering . . . . .

    The area of the Obsidian Trials was Introduced, used every so often, and added what a lot of PvPer wanted.

    NOW - this idea wants to have changes possible to the PvP loot, does not go Full Loot but tries again to introduce MORE loot for PvP, which as it is now can still be ransomed, if you even think that losing without getting it back will ever work? You cannot take and add more Loot to Mobs for PvP only, you have already had a promise broken and sure keep going down that road but every step is someone lese just getting of the road all together.

    Goo look at this thread almost every idea has already been brought up here - https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?forums/pvp-gameplay.39/ -

    I know this is just another wish list addition but . . . . .
     
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  12. Asbury Baker

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    Low risk should definitely be "no risk." I took a couple of first-time PvPers into the fall a few weeks ago and some decent PvPers would wait until the new players were engaged with liches, then attack. The victors never looted, so the argument that "If there's no risk, no one will PvP" does not hold here. In this case, the PvPers were probably joyful for fodder, and did not want to run them off quickly. Just because these PvPers were gentle, not all will be. Setting a real PvP zone or two, not just the obsidian trials, to no-loot would be a fantastic test. Pick a half decent ruins and, forbid, Blood Bay as a trial run.
     
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  13. Damian Killingsworth

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    I like the idea. Go all the way though, < FULL LOOT < PERMADEATH!o_O
     
  14. Hemswal The Descended

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    I get that not everyone loves this idea. I also understand that some people love it. I also get that some people like the idea to a degree and would like to see some tweaked version of this.

    Respectfully, to all of you, I just want more meaningful PvP, as most players do. There are a lot of ways to do it. Ultimately, I have faith in the devs to make it so!

    Just my 2 cents in an effort to get the creative juices flowing. <3
     
  15. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    So having the ability to flag (along with everyone else), anywhere in the game - is not "meaningful" enough , is that what I'm hearing from you ? @Hemswal The Descended
     
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  16. Hemswal The Descended

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    Not meaningful enough, no. A great deal more can be done with PvP as has been done in UO and many other games.
     
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  17. Hemswal The Descended

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    I hope you don't think I'm calling anyone names?
     
  18. Toadster

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    Go into one of the PVP zones, and count how many players are there. The go to the Fall and count how many players are PVP’ing there and how many are just grinding at a faster rate for better loot. Then go to the obsidian trials and try to find a match. And now you want to add more empty scenes for more players that will just rage quit when they can’t be OP in a few hours. Is it really that fun/Fair killing naked
    naked or Noobie armored trammies. This would destroy the game and cause a mass exodus of the players that stuck around even after being called Trammies, Sheep, and Cowards by the lead developer.

    Fix PVP to make it fun by focusing on the obsidian trials. Balance the fights and add counters to make the battle interesting, fun, challenging, and require intelligence. Add PVP titles and PVP specific rewards for trail winners.
    Split damage calculations based on player vs Mob or Player vs player. So balancing PvP doesn’t destroy PVE templates.
    Remove all current forced PVP zones and open them up to the players actually paying the bills and keeping the lights on.

    After this then adding factions, prt control from guilds based on obsidian trial based combat, guild wars.
     
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  19. Cyin

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    Although these terms do not offend me in the least, I have seen in this thread the terms which are used in a derogatory manner to belittle those who do not enjoy the PvP playstyle. Including the term Trammie. Now I am not trying to censor you, but if you are actually wanting to bridge the gap between two groups, using these terms may not be the wisest choice of words.
     
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  20. Hemswal The Descended

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    I don't consider Trammie an offensive word and I didn't mean it to be one. I even referred to myself as part Trammie in a previous post. Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would find this offensive. Also, I don't think you're trying to censor me. Thanks for your input.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with not wanting to PvP. I also don't think there is anything wrong with being a Trammie. I don't see the term as derogatory but as a categorization. If someone else wants to twist it into something that it's not, than that's on them.

    Northerners are from up North. Southerners are from down South. Trammies are from Trammel.
     
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