Release 15 Instructions

is it creating classes or is it a realistic limitation? I don't want to create classes but to have everybody running around as a stealther could be a problem. Besides I find it difficult to imagine a person being stealth with a 15' pole in their hands with a large axe head on the end of it.

Long bows as well don't seem to be much of a stealth weapon either, and surely none of the mechanical ranged weapons such as crossbows should be stealth. They should make quite a noise when fired. A shortbow or a composit shortbow is small enough to be concealed, and shouldn't make much noise. (a long bow probably doesn't make much noise either but it is still too large to be used stealth unless you're an elf maybe).

UPDATED: Although the passive stealth shouldn't hide somebody with a 15' weapon the Lunar magic should be able to do that just fine.

So all my proposed limitations on stealth should be on the innate stealth. The innate stealth should have strict limits not the magic one. That will differentiate between the two. Also means if a macer wants to stealth they need lunar magic to do so not light armor skills.

 

Although maybe magic users could be stealth regardless of their spell ability. nevertheless it should take away a considerable amount of points that would otherwise be valuable to a mage. I wouldn't want to see every mage in the world choose stealth because it is the best universal skill in the game. That isn't realistic.

Maybe there could be a mage alternative skill that is desireable that might cause pure mages to reconsider taking stealth. If the summoned elementals are valuable maybe they can break stealth, and make it utterly useless for a mage to take the stealth skill.

Right now most mages get away with using level 2 and 3 magic user spells. If the higher level magic spells are well worth it and make a mage far more powerful than the level 2 or 3 spells then it would reduce the numbers of steatlh mages that only use the arrow and fist spells as their primary weapons.

 

Holy I am so excited for this release I can't wait everything looks soo great thanks for all you Dev's do you work so hard for us I know we all appreciate it there aren't enough words but thanks eh

 

Kind thanks for not wiping the characters, I don't have time to level much in this release and it will be much more fun exploring all these great new scenes with my level 43 guy... Also thanks for vendors, more incentive to explore crafting!

 

I don't think anyone's insinuating you could fight while stealthed (at least I hope not), meaning the second you fire a silent bow or hear the quiet click of a crossbow or stab someone with a dagger you'd be revealed. But to say longbows and halberds make it difficult to stealth? If you're creeping around, you can keep these weapons parallel to the ground to keep your silhouette concealed. Additionally, not to come off as condescending, what about rangers? Elven archers? These are default elements of fantasy lore and infamous for being stealthy bow-users.

Stealth is a playstyle. You don't just pick it up 'cause it's inherently powerful. It's no different than casting a buff that makes you impervious to damage or buff your resistance through the roof as you close the gap to archers/mages. Instead of being seen and mitigating damage while you get shot up, you close the gap quietly and invisibly; instead of shrugging off damage, you hope you aren't spotted while you sneak up to your target. It has its pros and cons, like anything.

As I mentioned before, if you look at how or why Stealth could become overpowered, look at the skills being used in conjunction. You cite mages using low tier spells and spamming destruction; it isn't Stealth or even making higher end spells better, necessarily. The system right now is simply b0rked, so we aren't getting an accurate appreciation of what combat should be, only what it is currently in pre-alpha.

 

For the sake of our sanity in this game (preventing stealth from becoming a mandatory skill), I propose that the innate stealth skills be limited to concealable weapons. Larger weapons should bring a negative modifier to the stealth mechanism.

This wouldn't limit somebody with a 15' weapon from using stealth because they could still master lunar magic and do the stealth thing.

I'm just staying that the humanly natural skill of steatlth be limited to clandestine type weapons. Cloak and dagger, not cloak and twohanded sword. that's what i'm saying.

Magic stealth = any weapon or style. but it requires lunar magic

Innate skill stealth = concealable weapons and less encumbrance... lighter armor. + player skill at finding good places to hide such as behind rocks and in bushes.

 

In PvP I'll use whatever skills are the most useful. If stealth is unballanced and gives the greatest advantage of all the other skills... guess what skill I'm going to take.

I see your point about being a play style. Although sometimes skills are found to be way too useful and anybody who's anybody has got to have it. If stealth falls in that catagory then we have trouble, and I think that's what cook is saying here.

 

That train of logic starts to get into the whole "disarming a polearm on my back" argument. Or quickly arming a two-hander. It gets into these notions of "realism", often not exactly grounded in reality. Either way, while I disagree that you can't sneak around with a polearm, for argument's sake if I was limited to clandestine weapons, I'd want to be able to actually use them effectively. As I already mentioned, the skill would need to be proportionate to its effectiveness, otherwise you just killed that skill from use in the game outside of a handful of role-players.

If so, we're looking at someone sneaking up and doing massive amounts of damage from a sneak attack to make it worthwhile to invest into stealth. Personally, I'd rather someone stealth up and hit me with a polearm and "game on!" then someone two-shot me from stealth. Otherwise stealth would be almost pointless to take outside of a few people sneaking into PvP zones to gather resources. Even then, they'd likely take the Moon magic spell instead of investing in Light Armor to get in, get out and move on with their materials.

 

The difference is that playstyle infers that you have to want to do it. It isn't just an ability you press and it does X, Y, Z. It makes you invisible-ish, sure, but you can also be spotted relatively easy by people who are actively looking for you - either by casting Sun spells or simply patrolling the area. This was already confirmed in this thread by Chris, although the exact details are still in the works. You may think that stealth is useful, but if you don't know how to actively use it strategically, then you're better off using a buff to absorb damage or some teleport to close gaps instead.

Playstyle also means you have to incorporate this into how you approach just about everything you do in the game. If you don't use stealth actively, then that's a lot of points you've wasted. Stealth isn't inherently useful once you're overt and people know you're fighting them directly in front of their face. The spell might conceal you, but if all they have to do is click your slightly visible form and voila, you're revealed again, you have to rely on other abilities to save your hide. Also, if someone gets the jump on you, then those points would be better spent on buffs to tank, heal or otherwise mitigate the damage you're taking in the ambush/gank/duel/whatever.

In short, stealth is not a just some ability that helps you; it changes everything about how you play the game, and not everyone is good at completely changing that approach.

 

Looks a great release, lots in. Especially looking forward to seeing the new scenes, new skills and of course the popping geometry

 

Glad to hear it, Chris ~fires off another arrow at an Obsidian Wolf~

 

M-O-O-N spells moon magic, cool.

Cannot wait to try this out.

 

Laws yes!

 

was worried that would have been a missed reference

 

I don't know if New Britannia's ready for Randall Flagg.

 

The walking dude exists in many places in many guises. I'm sure he's out there somewhere. ;-)

 

Probably spamming Death Touch with Crystal Shield and Earth innates.

 

any screenshots?

 

Looks like a great feature list. Congrats.

However, why add a second PvP zone? Couldn't that time have been better spent getting the SP closer to complete? It's not like the existing PvP zone is overcrowded. :-\