Remove the ability to 'like' content on the forums.

Sorry, but I think that this is much to do about nothing.....

Like counts ?
Who cares ?
It means nothing really.... IMO, and certainly not worth any effort to initiate changes...

So, I respectfully disagree.

 

Now that's called 'confirmation bias'.

It's not true that we can talk about anything. Like NSFW. And we definitely aren't allowed to talk about fight club. NooooOoobodies allowed to talk about fight club.

 

Respectfulness noted and appreciated!

However, I do feel as though if we did this, ye may look back in a month r' two and have a different opinion. Once you see how easy it is to do and the results, that is.

 

Easy to do, certainly.
Likes are a way of agreeing with a post, to one degree or another. It's a way to say: "I agree with what he/she said".
Abused ?
I suppose, perhaps.... but I want to keep the option available for the bulk of us who use it for what it's meant for.

 

We need to be able to hug our seemingly enemies
Maybe for those who don't "like" the "like button" can have an option of turning it off, instead of taking away anyone's freedom of expression <---<<< some people hate emojies are those next on the censorship chopping block?

Maybe we can just devise a way to hit an ignore button on likes...
....

~Time Lord~

 

I still don't see what results you are looking for other than "Let's hide the likes so the devs don't act on the posts I don't like". That is essentially how it is coming across. Removing likes would not stop trolling and I highly doubt the developers would be forced into anything to harm the game from a few likes on the boards. They know whats up.

Isn't one of the things with SoTA the fact that a large part of it is about the community input? I don't feel very comfortable with people being involved in the development and making decisions who had the deepest pockets during Kickstarter. Should that privilege be removed as well?

 

Aye, they are a way of agreeing with a post, but to a degree that leaves no information as to the reasoning, and no option for constructively adding on to the idea, aside from typing the reason which would still exist.

I definitely agree with this. I would also like to keep the option available, but I see it as a privilege like any other power we have here, rather than something we inherently are entitled to. Sometimes privileges need to be taken away so that we know what we're missing out on unfortunately, and because there are those who are likely playing and at an age where popularity is a confirmation of self worth, it seems to have led to a flurry of misinformation campaigning which is hard to ignore for those of us that suspect it. I see this as a way to be able to have the like button and learn to respect it at the same time.

 

Ok. A more Serious response.


Based on Data from Facebook.

Facebook was scared when they did implement the "Like" Button that it might reduce User Engagment - so basically reduce Comments. And if that would happen they would have right away removed the "Like" button.

So they hired a Team to "Test" if this would happen.

But the Test did surprise them in a total different way.

Like Buttons increased the Amounts of Comments!. The opposite.

So actually after someone will click on a Like Button he is more likely to post a Comment telling you why he "Likes" something instead of without the existence of a Like Button.
Like Buttons increase also the engagement of reading the Forum - because you have to read first to be able to decide if you support it or not.


So if this is true. And i am pretty dam sure Facebook will know - Removing a Like button - would reduce the amount of opinions we can see in this Forum.

And based on the OP Opinion - He would like more written Opinions.

So better then to leave "Likes" of course. Else you harm your goal.

 

Yes please. Please present such regarding your suggestion.

Please present factual information and the information gathering that you have done to come to your proposal that does not rely on subjective conjecture only, thank you.

First lets assume that most Forum creating software companies are not idiots if they stay in business, and that they are also interested in providing features which generate business for their customers.

Then let's look at this from two important angles - those who are the most active and those who are the least active in the forum:

A)
Now the biggest Feature of the Like function for the really active posters isn't the highscore or the Like Ratio or anything like that although that does give a small drive.
Instead the biggest Feature of the Like function is that the active poster gets an Alert. That Alert makes the poster more likely to return to the topic if it gets enough attention and more likely to thus post again.
This improves the quality of the forums and the posts since you don't have to quote or post a +1 thing to keep it going.
Thus if your proposal would be to remove the high score page and such things, then it could have had some kind of merit. But removing the Like feature because of highscores etc is really throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
B)
Another thing which is much more damning to such suggestions is that is usually underestimated by those who has not studied/read up on this field is the feeling of participation for the Lurkers out there. Most forums (depending on what its main topic is) have about 60-90% Lurkers. Without knowing the metrics I'd guesstimate that SotA is in the higher end since it is Early Access. Getting such Lurkers to feel like they are participating without having to post is crucial in getting Lurkers to stay/return to the forum. (And also to get Snipers to stay semi-active).
This is a gaming forum for a crowd-sourced game still in production looking for funding. Keeping those Lurkers happy enough to keep returning/staying is a real priority. Since such participation leads to potential further funding.
Studies have shown that Lurkers in general are usually older than active posters. (Obvious when you think about it). In this case for SotA, slightly older also correlates with disposable income, and since it is riding on nostalgia the general age group of the target audience is higher.
Want to guess what is one of primary drivers for the feeling of participation, in studies, for Lurkers when browsing a forum? Yupp that is right - stuff like the Like features. (Also having more than just one type of Like would be better but that is a different story, like 'Agree', 'Disagree', 'Thank you', etc.)
Want to guess what is one of the primary drivers for transforming Lurkers into posters? Yupp that is right - stuff like the Like feature.
The % chance of return posting, leading to participation, if one of their first posts got a like is a magnitude from those who don't. So there is even forums that employ Like Bots to increase the conversion rate from Lurker to Participant.


-------


So lets do what you suggest then. Lets bring some "factual information and proper information gathering" into this discussion.
Since you started with the OP you get to go first.
You cite a published study/research that corroborates with your stance in the OP, and I will respond with 2 (two) studies which show that the Like feature is a great feature for the A and the B reasons above and is great for business.
Lets go.



-----

Edit:
Drat, a @Myrcello ninja snuck in with a shuriken before my post...

 

Community input will not be restricted by this change. In fact, it will become more reliable and we will benefit from more in depth information as to the reasoning for it. It puts the 'liker' in a position where he or she is then able to elaborate constructively and maybe add some extra ideas towards the thought.

I'll take a quote from someone who has done this in the past, this is what they had to say afterwards:

''Well, I said I wish you had remove likes and sure enough you do. I am so grateful for all the work you have done. It will help me make my forum the best it can be. I sincerely thank you.''

''I think my members are going to push for this. Some feel that "like" cuts down on actual commenting. Thank you for doing this.''

 

I don't know that person. But I do know what Oprah had to say about it;

~Time Lord~

 

Not sure if my above post suits you @Spoon but it is indeed evidence that I am not alone in suspecting that the ability to like posts takes away from the actual commenting SotA needs at this stage in the game.

But no, I didn't bring this up with just a baseless opinion. I've read that it has helped developers in the past. I do wonder if any of our developers can reflect any time they've felt that Likes have frustrated them on certain topics where they wanted more feedback? Or will they all see how many pages there are on this thread and the trolling within and avoid the subject completely, out of fear of trolls?

 

LOl @Spoon

and "a like"

It gives you hopefully a warm feeling

 

Not exactly. I am well aware that certain individuals are posting more comments, and even sometimes dishonoring the code of conduct in order to repeatedly post topics, in order to achieve more likes on subjects which are earning them a good ratio. Welllll aware.

Tis' not the quantity of posts I'm after, but the quality. Relating this of course to a game which is in alpha testing, and not a social media website hungry for 'hit' count because they make money off it.

Apples and oranges, I'm afraid, that need not be compared.

 

What about the forum members who didn't like it? Some like it, you and others don't. A couple of positive quotes from people who were in favour anyway proves nothing.

I want to believe this is all for the best but from this thread and other threads and posts recently, I feel that there is a drive to remove any criticism from the forums (under the guise of it being in the best interests of the game). Much in the same way that you believe people are repeatedly posting negative comments (I'm assuming negative as why mention it otherwise) to increase their like count and prove to the devs that they are right. Criticism is an important as praise in any development process, I imagine Port would agree with that.

Also what about the players involved in development who paid for it? Surely you have an issue with that based on this?

 

@Superbitsandbob So you're saying you want me to collect more data on this but you're also against testing it to get said data?

 

Why all the drama?

 

That's a good question.

I think it's because some users here have some fear of change. Maybe Port has done this, by changing things and never changing them back, or not soon enough?

It would be best in this stage of the game if changes could be made on a whim, without having people fear them, especially when they're reasonable.

But it's another topic I suppose, I might make a post for it, but for now I'll have to save it for a rainy day because tis getting late I'm afraid.

 

Never ending disccusion with no reaction to arguments.

So if this is the case.

I drop out right away.


To have a fruitfully discussion at one point you need someone who is willing to say: Ok. I agree - or yes - this Fact i can´t ignore. Lets build on on these new information.

If this never happens what is the use to further move on talking.

Then all what is happening is a wave of opinions trying to shout the loudest and not creating a result or finding a common ground.

So you win, i can´t shout so loud as you. Remove the Likes

 

@Myrcello You tried to compare SotA forums to FB. I don't see any ads here.

FB wants viewership and quantity of postings, because they make money off it. They could care less about the quality. They don't even moderate flamewars. It's totally different from SotA forums in that sense. It's a fact.

I'm sorry it didn't work as well as you planned, but there's no need for naming and shaming in this thread.

 

I think its more one of motive. Based on your posts I feel that you want likes taken away to deter the devs from taking notice of opinions on the game that are seen as negative or posted by, who in your opinion only, are trolls. I apologise if that is not the case but this is just my feeling.

You have started a thread saying "I think this would be a good idea", to remove a key forum function with little evidence to back up what you are saying. I feel it could actually be quite damaging to the community as it could snowball into other people wanting other things removed and changed. Where do the devs stop?I don't think trying it to see how it goes is a good idea purely based on the fact that once it's changed, those who don't like it will fight tooth and nail to keep it off (maybe that's just me being cynical).

A better way would be to state that x, y and z MMO profited from removing likes and other patting on the back type stuff from the forums, and then show proof that this was the case. At the moment all we have is someone who wants to remove a fundamental part of the forum based on conjecture. Port can then look at that and hopefully make an informed decision.

It's a tough time for the game at the moment. We are in persistence still with the potential of some changes that could fundamentally affect the time people have put into the game. There are also a group of ex players on the forums who, it seems, desperately want to play the game again but not as it is. This censorship, which is not as you see it and I understand that, is dodgy ground.

You also didn't answer my point about players paying to be involved in development and that influence on Port.