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Research into Armor Base stats, Damage Reduction% per fizzle% and more.

Discussion in 'Player Created Resources' started by Warin, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    If you're wearing leather click here:
    If you're thinking about wether to pick light or heavy armor this might help you decide.

    Worked on some armor charts and stats in order to compare different armor sets to eachother:
    In the green area you enter your armors base stas,
    In the blue area you enter your skill, item, jewlery bonuses etc

    Example comparison:
    [​IMG]
    In this sheet it's comparing 3 sets of armor to eachother, while getting the same outside bonuses (skills, cloaks etc)

    Link to google document here make your own copy and edit it as you like.
    Download as excelsheet here

    Here is a list of base armor stats used above if you want to mix and match your own sets:
    [​IMG]

    Finds during research:
    • Skill requirements only care what kind of chest piece you're wearing, so if you have a light armor chest and rest plate you get light armor skills.

    • Both Sympathy of Stone(Earth) and Deflection(Heavy) Max Damage Resistance% are multiplicative with your armor, but the tooltip updates the value added so if your wondering how much the skill is giving you in % just wear the set and subtract the tooltip value from each of the skills.

    • Improved armor +# only scales damage reduction, not avoidance or max % so armor with + means your max hit increases giving you your armors max t% further into endgame. So +armor res (exluding the stats recieved) doesn't matter until later content.

    • Also stop wearing leather ;)
    Contact me ingame if you have any questions: Warin Quinn
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  2. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    -------------------------------------------------<OldOP>
    If you're wearing leather click here:
    NEW editable version and download link here

    Worked a bit on a table of armor stats:
    [​IMG]

    Legend:
    res = Damage Resistance
    av = Damage avoidance %
    Fiz% = Fizzle Chance
    Max% = Max Damage Resistance %
    Val = res+av/Fiz% (stats "cost" per fizzle %) arbitrary
    Type = type of armor
    Slot = slot armor goes into
    Max t% = av+Max% this is average damage reduction given that damage resistance is still capped.
    Max hit = how big a hit has to become before flat damage resistance (res) takes over for Max Damage Resistance % (no longer capped)
    m%/f% = % of average damage reduction recieved from the armor piece PER fizzle % (aka I take 70% less damage but i get 60% fizzle that's 1.17% damage reduction per fizzle% (example is full plate) (if damage is less than cap)

    Finds during research:
    • Skill requirements only care what kind of chest piece you're wearing, so if you have a light armor chest and rest plate you get light armor skills.

    • Both Sympathy of Stone(Earth) and Deflection(Heavy) Max Damage Resistance% are multiplicative with your armor, but the tooltip updates the value added so if your wondering how much the skill is giving you in % just wear the set and subtract the tooltip value from each of the skills.

    • Improved armor +# only scales damage reduction, not avoidance or max % so armor with + means your max hit increases giving you your armors max t% further into endgame. So +armor res (exluding the stats recieved) doesn't matter until later content.
    Contact me ingame if you have any questions: Warin Quinn
    </OldOP>-------------------------------------------------------------

    Here is Cloth Gloves, Chain Chest and rest plate, and Chain Chest rest plate:
    [​IMG]

    First mix gives you more 1,5% damage reduction than pure chain up to 26.4 damage (1.3 less after) 2% less fizzle and is a better end game set since it has 3% more avoidance (no cap) while the 1.3res doesn't scale.

    Another mix:

    Battle mage, Leather chest, Cloth gloves and rest plate
    [​IMG]
    6% more fizzle than full leather, 18% more damage resistance (including 8% avoidance)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
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  3. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    This statement needs a litel clarification - it mean the skill tree used only cares about your CHest piece if oyu have a skill that adds a % it is to a total not jjust the chect piece.

    Again the Skill Trees - Light and Heavy are directly related to the chest piece ONLY, was supposed to be fixed but the change was a 10 % boost for a whole suit.


    ASEOME data thow TY
     
  4. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    [​IMG]

    Added the assumption of 80 in Deflection and Sympathy of stone and +4 armor(aka 10% more res) Cloth gloves and Chain chest + plate looks pretty hot.

    As does Cloth gloves and either leather chest(above) or cloth chest(below) + rest plate for battlemages.
    [​IMG]

    I'm missing data to scale the last earth skill that gives Damage Resistance, it would extend armor% further into endgame, but not do anything before the "cap" is breached.
     
  5. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    Thanks, added requirements to clarify
     
  6. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    Another data point, what happens to my armor when I take much more damage per hit.
    [​IMG]

    Row R
    How much % average damage reduction (flat DR + avoidance) does my set of armor give me if my opponent is doing 50 damage a hit?

    Row U
    How much % average damage reduction (flat DR + avoidance) does my set of armor give me if my opponent is doing 100 damage a hit?

    The other rows are just comparing %DR to Fizzle% and ranking the sets in between each other.

    It seems like even as damage increases way above the max hit cap, plate catches up a bit with superior DR and avoidance, but loses almost as much because of it's high Max DR%
    Plate vs Cloth Chest and Gloves taking 100 damage per hit.
    Plate takes 72,84 damage per hit average
    Mix takes 82,8 damage per hit average
    Plate has 60% fizzle mix has 18% fizzle
     
  7. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    Comparing full leather to Cloth Gloves + Cloth Chest rest plate:

    Here there's no competition: The sets have almost the same damage resistance after leathers set bonus but for most of the game the mix set has 15% more average damage reduction, and on higher damage numbers (50 and 100 per hit) it massively outperforms it because of plates avoidance.

    Conclusion: Stop wearing leather!
     
  8. Joeble

    Joeble Avatar

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    This is great information ,thank you. I had no idea mixing the types could actually net you a better result...I just figured that my plate get-up would be the best for protection.

    Are you going to continue with this for the other armor material types? I have only started crafting armor, so haven't made anything better than regular yet, but would be happy to contribute.
     
  9. Beli

    Beli Avatar

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    Good info Warin. I assume your data is based on not having any skills raised in light armor, like acrobatics. and in pole arms defensive positions. also on masterworks enhancements like % avoidance. I currently am wearing leather and have a dr of 17 and a base av of 2%.. When I cast evasion my av goes up to 7% for 20 seconds, I dont have those skills maxed out yet. So not quite ready to ditch the leather yet.
     
  10. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    There's a lot of variables in gear, but I'm assuming that whatever gear addons can be put on, there's other things that is more interesting than increasing damage reduction. Barring that, that the defensive increases are comparable. When it comes to the +10 etc increases they are linear, so every piece increases by 20% Damage Reduction so the base comparisons still holds (to my knowledge)
     
  11. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    New version of the sheet where you can make your own copy download etc, it has separate sections for adding your own set (or piece together from above stats)
    [​IMG]
    In this sheet it's comparing 3 sets of armor to eachother, while getting the same outside bonuses (skills, cloaks etc)

    Link to google document here make your own copy and edit it as you like.
    Download as excelsheet here

    Base stats of armors, there are variations especially in DT% Hoods are 5% DT instead of 8,5% etc
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
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  12. Krohon

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    Great info, Warin! Thank you.
     
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  13. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    Example of how and what you can compare with the sheet:

    Example comparison: 5 different full armor sets, with different innate skills:
    [​IMG]
    Assumption here is:
    Light armor (chest) innate gives wearer 4 extra DR from the acrobatics
    Heavy Armor (chest) innate gives wearer 10 extra Max Damage Resistance (DT%) multplied by 8 from the SoS innate
    The combination of cloak, items, sympathy of stone and bulwark of earth gives every wearer 3 extra damage resistance (xdR), 3 extra Damage Avoidance(xA%) and 8 Max Damage Resistance (xDT%)

    Also added the value score from earlier version where total average damage mitigation in % divided by fizzle % (cost of DR% per fizzle%)
     
  14. Warin

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    Updated the OP with the new sheet, so they don't have to scroll all the way down here.
     
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  15. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    Now if we could only add up all the benefits from buffs and other active skills from the Heavy and the Light tree we could make a very good comparison of what skill tree to go for. Just need to figure out how dodge and those other things work >_<

    ATM the Cloth Gloves, Cloth Chest rest plate set seems the runaway champion with the pasive skills in the comparison. It has the same avoidance as full chain with half the fizzle rate.
    Better than leather on every account, and almost the same average damage reduction (less than 1% difference) as full chain on high damage per hit. (dragons etc)

    If the light armor passive buffs are better than what heavy armor gets, then going for heavy chest and innate skills might be bad regardless of your builds goal.

    I need some screen shots of the light armor and heavy armors skills and passive at a higher level:
    http://sotawiki.net/sota/Light_Armor_school
    http://sotawiki.net/sota/Heavy_Armor_school

    We could compare active buffs and the amount of GCDs needed to be pressed per minute to keep them up, and the total damage recieved.

    Looking at the values it might come down to :
    • how much worse Evasion is compared to glancing blow (and how much of a hassle both of them are to use) Also why is the wording of avoidance different? need screenshots >_<
    • how good dodge is at high levels (duration and bonus)
    • how Combat Dodge Modifier reduces incoming damage
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  16. Warin

    Warin Avatar

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    Another scenario probably interesting for many:
    [​IMG]

    The heaviest possible suit of base armor (most average damage reduction from armor)
    while still using light armor passives (leather chest)
    vs
    heaviest for Heavy armor passives. (full plate armor)

    Same base assumptions as in post #13
    Full plate 69,3% average damage reduction with 60% fizzle
    Leather chest 63,1% average damage reduction with 40% fizzle

    You take on average 20% more damage wearing a leather chest given the skill scenario above. (37/30,7 = 1,203) as long as the incoming hits are under 27,5 damage.

    With 0 skills or extra gear bonuses the difference is only 8,2% increased damage for wearing leather. ((1-.586)/(1-.6175)=1,082)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  17. Nasir

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    So where did you get some of these exact numbers? Im curious? Data mined?
     
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  18. moko

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    Thanks a lot, awesome work!
     
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  19. Krohon

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    So you don't think letter is that bad? I am somewhat confused now.
     
  20. helm

    helm Avatar

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    Does anyone have any info on whether/when it's going to be fixed "properly"? Dev comments etc?

    I would much rather see an attunement-like system for armor, where every piece adds up to either heavy- or light armor attunement, which affects the effectiveness of the corresponding skill trees (either the heavy or the light armor tree). So if you wanted a maximally effective light armor tree, you would wear only light armor...but nothing would be preventing mixing up the two. Also a small "attunement bonus" could be given to full sets, for good looks if nothing else :)

    Solid info in the OP btw.
     
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