Roleplay incentives

In regards to InsaneMembrane: We enter this world as an Avatar from Earth, right? So say that InsaneMembrane RPs an asocial psychopath, like Charles Manson! No wait, not like Charles Manson, that dude was apparently social enough to have followers... Um, I can't think of any examples but I'm sure you get the idea.

Or -
How about IM is actually a Lesser Demon that enters the world! Maybe we could petition RG to endow IM with some little deominc attribute that would help set him apart from other players and aid him in his roleplay. Like horns that appear on his head when he attacks, or he smells slightly of sulphur. He could also be endowed with +10 armour and -10 damage against humanoids (that way his fights will last longer and give him more satisfaction, and other players might have a chance to keep their chair).

 

Thats all good, but then everyone will be turning their magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) down below the InsaneMembrane setting, so I wont have any "friends" to "RP" with...

 

But that was the whole point of you having -10 damage against humans (players) so they wouldn't have to turn down their magicpvpsliderbarthingy(TM) below the InsaneMembrane level!

 

PvP people don't need incentive to PvP
RP people don't need incentive to RP
PvE don't need incentive to PvE
...do we really need to go around actively trying to convince other people to try our own style of gaming in SoTA?

 

I don't think the divisions are as stark as people try to make them. All 3 elements are played in some way by most players (usually).

PvP'ers still role play in some sense as brigands and such within a world with a certain style of combat, magic, items based on story and lore. PvP'ers are RP'ers, just maybe not as extensively.

RP'ers are PvP'ers in some sense too. Take for example the desire to make a profit in crafting, or better yet get better items than everyone else. There are competitive elements among RP'ers even if they don't go full bore into PK.

Most PvP and RP'ers enage in PvE. I can't see a PvP'er who ONLY gains experience by PK, or never runs across the random monster or dungeon.

My point is that the OP isn't necessarily trying to convert people to a play style but advocate for more rewards in the RP direction, since it has almost NO rewards compared to PvP and PvE. RP is a component of this game, even for hardcore PvP. Should it have its own rewards? It is a very interesting question that I wish people wouldn't simply dismiss.

 

I somewhat agree and somewhat not. Roleplay is not a passive thing. Simply going out into the world getting into fights in itself is not RP. It requires a certain state of mind to take on a certain personality with which you interact with the world. Your a-typical kewl d3wd player does not do this.. they simply play a game and story be damned. They may look like a brigand from another persons perspective.. well that other person is the one engaging in some RP by taking that point of view.. not the kewl dude.

No amount incentives are going to change a player's frame of mind. If you really want to encourage players to try things out then a good approach is to appeal to what they like. If you want the PvPer to RP.. then a good approach might be to let RPers hold tournaments. If you want the RPer to go out and PvP then give them a story-based reason to go out and take the risk. It's not the reward that will get their attention.. it's the extention of play style they already engage in.

 

All of this.

 

I don't know if you were responding to me Bowen, but if so, I don't think you got what I was trying to say. The main point is not about encouraging people to change styles, but about rewarding those who choose to RP. Why should the only rewards be tied to PvP and PvE in games? You know that the "rewards" for RP are usually only the particular player's personal level of enjoyment, not anything in-game. That's why I think the OP hit on something very interesting.

Plus, I would argue that "kewl d3wd" is engaging in some very minimal forms of role-play. Which begs the question, what is role-play? Role-play is to me about doing things that go beyond the mechanics of the game. "kewl d3wd"'s are making choices, albeit simplistic ones, about how to interact with the world. It is not the level of role-play that I feel would be reward-able, but it is some sort of role no matter what. The only point is not to argue about what role-play actually is, because it can be defined on a spectrum of activities. The point of this part of what I was trying to say is that "style of gaming" is not so neatly categorized.

In sum, let's not too rigidly categorize PvE, RP, PvP. In fact, someone can happily engage all three in any number of combinations. And if anyone has real thoughts on how to reward RP in games, and not just PvE or PvP maybe get back to discussing that here.

 

Vyrinor - I agree that they aren't clear divisions. I fall somewhere amidsts all three leaning heavily to RP, but enjoying PvE content along with PvP that is RP driven. I was more responding to previous posts in this thread about using the rewards to encourage people to RP.

Bowen - Agreed, that was my point.

Lastly - I stand by my previous, previous post that as an RPer... I don't need rewards to RP other than the RP itself. I understand others may not agree with this and want them, that's fine. I, however, don't.

However... I am curious as to how many other RPers out there might. I may very well be in the minority.

 

I don't think you should be so easily satisfied! Should we not allow looting at all so PvPers can enjoy the thrill of a PK? Should we not grant experience in killing monsters for advancing skill levels so PvEers can simply enjoy the game mechanics, and the "oh it was cool to kill that giant rat!" exuberance?

I am mainly a RPer/PvEer with a dash of PvP. I believe RP adds a lot to the world, just as much as PvE or PvP, so it should be rewarded. May be a RP'ers union!

 

Vyrinor - Firstly I can't say how VERY excited I am to see other peopl who love RP as much as I do. This is the reason I'm excited about SoTA and wanted to back it. I'm all for finding a way to get RPers together in game. I am all for allowing PvPers (consentual) to PK and loot to their hearts content and let people killing monsters get their exp.

I, however, am not easily satisfied as you implied. I will be happy with the reward of "quality" RP. Honestly, for me there is no amount of exp, cool loot, epic items, deco that could possibly replace this or make up for it in a game. What I want most of all is to find other people who want to RP and enjoy character development and some level of emersion. That isn't something the devs can give me as a reward (I mean, unless the Devs come play..), that is something I can only get from my fellow players. I'm looking at you Vyrinor! heh. I have high expectations and hope for great reward. I am setting a high bar. I am not easily satisfied... but I don't need or have any desire for game mechanics to give me that reward. That's all.

 

BTW jgrahl ... your thread here got completely derailed at some point going from rewards for RPers to enticing non-RPers to give it a try. I appologizie for aiding in that derailment but felt strongly about responding to some of the other posts.

Also, still interested in hearing from other RPers on jgrahl's idea here. Again, I may very well be in the minority in not wanting/needing game mechs. rewards for RP.

(Edit: I have seen this done on shards where running an RP event gets you rewards that do not cause an in game advantage but are strictly asthetic. Like, house deco in commemoration of the event.)

 

Oops what have I done?

I only role play a "kewl d3wd" lol.

 

Good original idea and solid comments (mostly), evaluating good/bad aspects.

One of the best museums I've ever experienced was the Head-Smashed-In-Buffalo-Jump, outside Calgary (Canada). Because the exhibit staff had designed small, subtle, interactive add-ons (step a bit further around one edge of an exhibit, tap against a screen of another, etc.) using non-perceptible tech cues (still don't know if it was pressure plates, IR beams, US mikes, whatever) to 'trigger' events. The net effect was that the person who was more actively exploring their environment, got a bit more, and different, content than the passive and low-energy wanderer.

The interaction that gives small additional positive feedback was enough by itself to spark a growing interest. The same could be true in SotA. Effecting a color/texture change in part of the clothing. Having the option to add (or wipe) a tattoo. Gaining a single '+1 against Red Thorn' arrow. The rewards don't have to be game-changers -- it might help if they randomize per interaction (to limit the desirability of 'farming' them), with time-delays at each location (to block 'bots and harvesters).

...Hmm. Suppose ALL of the NPCs had a random chance of letting slip a bit of 'backstory' for the entire campaign? But only do so if you engage them in a longer conversation than intro/exchange/goalseek? Not that they would do it much of the time -- and the selection of what sets of 'backstory' details you get, could be varied by the class of NPC and nature of their interaction with you (so your reputation/Virtue will count).

 

I don't think offering people carrots to role-playing works. Its one of the reasons I don't like the carrot approach to dealing with food; potions are always better than food.

With your suggestions, I think it would just end up cheapening these types of interactions. Characters getting up and down from chairs for exp. Interacting with NPCs or PCs and then just ignoring everything that's being said; clicking through everything. That's how a lot of people play role-playing games already: they click through all the text, ignoring everything that's being said, and then just check their quest log.

The incentive to role-playing should be that its necessary to play the game. It's a role-playing game, after all.

 

Speaking as a non RPer, I would need incentives to RP. If the carrots were cooked in the right way, even I could get into RP as nothing is impossible.

So there you have it, Yin and Yang. Some of you say that no amount of incentives or vitamin A rich foods will get anyone to RP ever. From the outside looking in, I am saying that yes actually, it would!

 

There is no game mechanic that can really measure whether or not true RP is taking place because it's interacting with other players rather than interacting only with the game. Games can only measure interactions with themselves.. not the context of player's social interactions on which RP relies. There is no reward that will not be exploited because of this reason. The game would reward you for jumping through hoops.. that's about the extent of what it can do in this regard.

 

Well, I find even role-players stop role-playing with the carrot approach... because they get lazy, eventually.

Which isn't to say the point should be to make the game painful for their own good. Its just that I find there are a lot of things I find players don't mind doing, and actually enjoy doing when they have to do them. But when you give them the option, they just don't see the point.

Consider fast travel. A lot of people really hate fast travel because it makes the game feel more empty, and devalues traveling. They enjoy riding between cities, exploring the scenery, and avoiding encounters. But even for those people, if you give them fast travel, they'll cheat every once in a while, and then, after a while, a lot will start cheating every time. On top of that, there are ways to make traveling tedious, and ways to make it fun. But it doesn't matter how fun it is -- people will start to opt not to do it.

Its the same thing for game mechanics like hunger. All old school DOS games had hunger -- people were used to it. It was sometimes done tediously, and sometimes done fun, but nobody questioned that it was there in the first place. Even the people who were in the game for the battles didn't question it. But you remove the option, and eventually even the role-players will start to cheat a little, then cheat a lot.

So, I'm just of the opinion that if you give people more and more options for the sake of convenience, its going to start to weaken the game and people's enjoyment of it.

 

The best way.. in my opinion to encourage RP in general.. is to support it with game design and features. Give the roleplayers tools they can use and so far a lot of that is happening already. Chairs to sit in.. for example isn't much.. but if someone sits in a chair because they want to sit in the chair for no other reason that it seems natural to do so.. that's a small bit of RP precisely because there is no reward for doing it..

If you think about that chair.. what benefit is there to sitting in it? None. There's no game mechanic rewarding you with some benefit. The reward you get.. small as it might seem is the greater sense of immersion. Without chairs the RPer would say something like *Bowen sits in a nearby chair* if I wanted my character to sit. In this respect the chair is an RP tool and I use it to that end. The instant you attach rewards like XP or anything else then people will use it as a mechanic to exploit for the reward rather than looking at it as a means for your character to relax after a hard day's adventure where you're not worried about HP, stats or whatever else.

 

I agree with Bowen. If the chair is an xp item it will be an exploit. The greatest joys comes out of the immersion. I must say theres been a many of times I've used the chair, or bed or jsut had the character collapse after a few battles and he took some damage. For the sake of roleplay, I had em fall flat on his face a couple times and then stay within the keep or cleric's home for a few days to even a couple weeks depending on how bad the wounds were. XP is nice, and leveling and all that jazz is good, but I know that I personally find more joy out of my RP then my XP. XP can always be earned over and over again, but RP instances is what one truely remembers.Tis why we have a post elsewhere for game experiances, people posted different rp scenarios they had that were close and memorable.. Not a single post of "I remember when I hit level 25.... It was awesome..."..
So yes I still stand against incentives for rp. Tools yes, xp gains no. If one woshes to rp they will. Bribing them is jsut gonna lead to exploits, abuse, and doubtful it will lead to any real rp, just people sitting down every chance they get or using x item for the xp every chance they get, which can actually be bad rp.