Ruins and Shardfalls revamp (difficult, loot and xp)

Yeah, this is kinda my problem with it. I don't want the most lucrative scenes to have to deal with the "headache." Its not about "challenge" or "risk" so much as "annoyance." Making PvP scenes better for PvE just penalizes PvE folks for not wanting to be hassled with, and I'll never be in favor of that. I do however think there's a lot of potential to increase the pvp-related benefit in these scenes as per suggestions above.

 

That's not how PvP works at all. It's been proven time and time again.

 

I like to do solo pvm in the pvp zones. Just the tiny chance of running into another player who possibly will attack me makes it more real and alive to me. The problem is that ruins and shardfalls are less efficient for both exp and gold, compared to a number of pvm zones. I would like them to be on par (not better mind you). The new wave battles are a plus but not quite enough.

 

This is difficult to believe, because nearly every single time that I ask someone who desperately wants open PvP if they really just want to be able to gank noobs and those who would stand very little chance of fighting back... they dance around the question, deflecting and moving the goalposts.

Yet... in other threads they've been found crowing about this or that super unfair situation where they nailed someone in PvP.

Maybe that's not you. Maybe you could have an uber character who's kitted out for impressive PvP and not only would you ignore those who would be no challenge, you'd leave them alive, after a couple of good whacks, to weaker characters who would try and attack you anyway.

That would make you nearly unique in MMOs, but it is entirely possible.

 

Yeah but killed some bosses with the new drop thing on boss and sadly I can tell it is not yet on point... got no drop from a lot of bosses, the usual crap *looking throught my pocket and tacking out that rusty spoon*

 

At this point I’m very sure that artifact drops are likely Controlled similar to how cotos are to ensure they remain rare

 

Even better, that intro could play while the scene loads, making the game feel more immersive and less "loading" screens.

 

I will, on occasion, hit certain areas that are PvP to harvest Obsidian Chips, and for that, they work well for me. I think I have seen one person in the zone throughout all my adventures there and we stayed a fair amount distant from each other in the process. Honestly, I think PvP is better off where it has its own set of rules and rewards involved such as the Obsidian Trials.

Maybe revamp the Control Points so that Guilds can declare to be Order or Chaos (or British vs Obsidian as the case may be) and the type of guild that gains control of a control point opens that point for like-aligned guilds. Example: if British aligned Guild controls Eastreach Gap, then all British aligned guilds can move freely through it. Obsidian aligned guilds would have to go through the scene and either take it over or run through as per pre-57. Non-aligned guilds would have to be considered. If that was the original intention, then it has yet to be achieved.

 

They drop like candy now.... thus why prices are in the tank
edit: artifacts, cotos still rare

 

You sure do have a lot to say in response to my simple statement, but, I'll do my best to reply to all of your post.

Ok, a lvl 85 player can beat a lvl 115 player (it's been done many times). It's happened many times. When I was lvl 90, I used to beat lvl 105-110 players regularly. I'm not even that good at PvP. For the record, I'm not desperate for open PvP but I'm also not against the idea. I'm quite content just having PvP zones. Also, I don't care about "ganking noobs". Reaching a level where the playing field is pretty leveled out is easier than ever with all XP doubled forever. I do support that there is a "tipping point" (level minimum) for high level PvP though, and I consider that to be around lvl 80-85 for most players that are focused in their trees instead of spread out all over the place.

Other threads? I'm not going to go full forum warrior to try to support my point(s) here. They? Unfair situations? I'm not following you.

Maybe what's not me? I'm not a big PvPer with some crazy amazing PvP build. I'm a casual PvPer at most. It seems like your entire post is based on you thinking that I'm some sort of PvP God, or something? I understand the basic concepts of PvP and I understand my build. Just having knowledge of these two things makes for a Lvl 85+ character that is reasonably safe in a PvP zone unless they're just out numbered or out played.

Also, just because someone is in a PvP zone does not mean they will attack you on sight. There are many friendly people that only attack if they're attacked. Then, there are people that will attack you on sight but won't loot you at all. Then, sure, there are people that will murder your character, loot your body, and display your bones in their house. I'm fine with all three types.

 

Back to the main point, I absolutely support the original context of this thread. Giving more incentive for using PvP zones sounds like an excellent idea. Most of those zones are beautiful and people should not be afraid to go explore there.

 

And yet time and time again, we see this behavior is actually exactly how it works. You actually confirm this below....

You're fine with people doing the murder-gank thing in a PvP zone. So am I -its a PvP zone. But as a PvP zone, everyone who is in that zone should be there because they want to (or at least welcome) being engaged in PvP.

If you put in heavy PvE incentives, people are not in the zone because they want to PvP. They are there for the PvE benefit only. This is in contradiction to the above purpose of these scenes.

Any incentivization put into PvP scenes needs to be PvP-related and not something desired or needed by PvE players.

I repeatedly see PvP players claim that its about the challenge of fighting against players rather than AI, but want the ability to attack unwilling participants who (likely as not) stand no chance. I'm not disputing the level disparity thing here at all, I understand that lower lvl can kill much higher if built/optimized appropriately. The issue is if you make these some sort of "super PvE zone" you are not enticing parties interested in PvP, you are enticing PvErs who are there for a completely different purpose. (IE, "more victims" mentality). This is the wrong approach and will always have heavy resistance from people for whom PvP (and being griefed) has no appeal.

I am not directing this at you in particular, not all PvPers are equal and not all of them are griefers/jerks. Unfortunately because the ruleset allows such behavior, such as camping someone and killing them repeatedly while they are trying to quest, which absolutely happens here - pretty rampantly - they give people a poor impression of the PvP community as a whole. And as long as the ransom system continues to reward such behavior it will not stop. Even if ransom was removed and 'ganking' gave no benefit whatsoever, it is unlikely to stop, as there absolutely are people who only seem to derive enjoyment from ruining someone else's day. And honestly, if that's their gig? Fine. But I don't think the game should make it easier than it already is, and I certainly don't think this behavior needs additional reward.

I firmly believe that the only reason you should need to go into a PvP scene is because you want to PvP. I am fine with earning PvP rewards for doing so. I will never be ok with a more lucrative PvE experience being contingent on allowing yourself to be victimized.

 

If you get ganked, ask for help. There are plenty of people that are willing to go after the "bad guys". A bounty system would help greatly with this issue.

 

Yeah, you're missing the point. Its not about not having recourse to punish gankers, its about not putting players in the situation in the first place.

I know you can call your friends and they can call their friends and everyone can make a bit deal out of it. Some folks though find that entire situation distasteful/undesirable, and just want to play their game without having some, for lack of a better word, bully - able to interfere with, annoy, or waste their time. I certainly have better things to do with my time than mess about with the egos and the posturing - zero appeal whatsoever.

IF you want to PvP, and you are there for PvP, and someone kills you, so you call someone to kill them, and so on and so forth - that whole metagame is fun for some folks, and I'm not asking for that to be taken away at all. I personally find that these scenarios end up being very schoolyard-playground ish, and while I have no objection to people who enjoy it - I want to reserve the right not to get involved. To clarify before I get jumped on, I am not saying that PvPers are immature children with my schoolyard metaphor, but rather the choosing up sides, bullying, and general mischief is reminiscent of such. Some people enjoy this. I personally hate it. I am completely content to let PvP folks play their game, but it seems PvP folks are not content to let non-PvP folks play theirs, something I've never really heard a good justification for.

To feel like I'm being penalized/punished/missing out on PvE content because I don't want to do angry playground thing, is unacceptable to me.

 

I am flagged since February this year and i am alomst all the time in open mode. At this time i was adv.level 53. Never switched the flag off. And also do not want to support the oracle to spread fear, anger and hate to her mates.
My results so far:
- 1 classical PK.. visited me at home each 2 month (non PvP town)
- 1 greifer (non PvP zone)
- killed 2 times by ones that seems that was their first kill (non PvP zone)
- uncounted flagged ones that left me alone.
- some that asked prior killing to get a body part.
- most of my pvp experience is about duelling. Sadly mostly with ones that are some levels higher then me.
The "i got PK'ed" rate is extremely low.
The total lost on ransom are: ~10k gp and some bodyparts. 6K of this was during a warfare because i dressed my char for a full loot system instead of an ransom system. Else it would be less.

I visiting the PvP Zones like any other zone in this game. I nearly do not have seen every zone they made, there are so many. I do PvE almost, gathering resource and mob loot.
What many of the other PvP'ers also do. They also have shops, homes, towns. A guild / guild mates. Social contacts. They play the game like every other do. But with a less restricted mindset.

Reading this thread, it seems the game has shardfalls and ruins and a very few non PvP zones. I do not know if there are different server one can log into. But the server i use has a lot of non-PvP zones. Also the shardfalls and ruins are all tier5. On the server that i log into there many non-PvP zones of higher tier.

 

The problem I had with the few (only about 5 I have visited) is that the mob density was very low or just bosses. I don't solo bosses. The low density is presumably to allow players to PvP without the mobs getting in the way. This makes them rubbish pve zones, so stopped going.

Maybe make the mobs all neutral in a shardfall. So you can kill the stuff if you want but don't have to because it is not good xp anyway. But this allows you to harvest without mobs interference, but with the risk of player interference.

Should be no more density of the harvested good than a pve zone, but with the advantage of no mob aggression, countered by the risk of player aggression.

Regards
Spung

 

@kaeshiva I'm not missing the point. I just don't agree, and that's ok. We don't have to agree. I trust that the devs will make something interesting for people that are and are not interested in PvP.

 

The guy that liked your post destroyed me in the lost vale because I'd gotten flagged as PVP when he was over level 100 and I was level 51 with about 400 hit points.

So, those that say "Oh, that never happens, PvP doesn't work where people attack you when you are not paying attention, it's all chivalrous and what not" I say Balderdash.

That week I was killed about 10 times, always sneakily, always crushingly overwhelmingly, and I lost and had to pay about 50,000 IGG. So that's why I don't PvP.

I'm sure I'm not the only potential PvP person completely turned off by how it "really works" in this game - and that's why PvP is dead in the game - not enough "sheep". The only PvPers are people that don't know better yet and the top 1 percent that just pwn everyone else.

Hence... why level gating should have been implemented. If you don't believe me - just look around the game - PvP in the game isn't super healthy.

 

Perhaps you didn't read the other things I wrote on this thread about this specific topic?

 

We have read it, you skirted around the issue and said that the answer to this sort of behavior is just to ask for help:

A lot of us think that it isn't ok for this to happen to begin with, regardless of what steps you can or can't take to "exact revenge". It is rampant in absolutely every game where the game mechanics allow it. There are people who derive great enjoyment from simply harassing, bullying, etc. but online anonymity creates situations in which you can behave poorly with no consequence. This is why "consensual" pvp is so important. The ONLY thing that a PvP player loses in a fully consensual pvp system is the ability to grief. That is it. Arguing against consensual pvp is esentially asking the game to endorse harassment.

If people like that sort of thing - I'm fine with them doing it - amongst themselves to players who choose to subject themselves to it so that they may do it in turn. It should absolutely not be inflicted on the playerbase at large, and the playerbase at large should not be put into a position where they are penalized for not wanting to participate.

Its one of those "we're not going to agree" things..