Should Private Messaging be allowed to the Developers?

Hello all.

Based on the nice thread about "Deleting Threads" you created on your own.

I am currently in an emotional state because of that.

So i will post a Topic i find far more impacting then the "Delete Thread" topic and so as recommended i will speak out. Nice to have Discussion do you not all thik.


Do you all know that you can private Message every Developers you like. And you will get responses form them on Private Message.

On Private Message non of us can participate. But in Private Messages suggestions will be taken, Ideas will be exchanged and communication is going on. Bypassing the complete rest of you all who paid to participate on the Forum?

And of course over the course of the years a percentage of us Community Members have learned that in comparison to using the official Forum the success Rate of your Feedback or Suggestion getting attention is higher compared to using the official channels.

Even further within the Game you will have the option to provide ongoing chat and talking with the Developers who you are friends with. You may ingame directly chatting about the Combat System and giving your ideas and feedback. Again without any of us knowing.

Now i did use it myself a lot at the beginning - Why - Because it worked. And it was actually far more fun to interact directly with the Developers as arguing with other Members who at the end would not be the ones doing a decision.

So sorry afterword's for ignoring the Forum that I have regarded over the years as very tiring and inefficient as the Communication is far to much - We talk with each other then the feeling of talking with Portalarium.

My personal Behaving had also been that i used even if i had been a Dev+ Member the Open Area far more if i posted in the Forum.

Why - Because it was more easy to get attention. The basic Rule was - The more Eyes and Discussion is going on in my Thread the more i have a chance of also having Developers thinking of my Ideas.

I mean hey i paid for it back then. Dev+. : )

But my experience had been - Dev+ is less people participating - meaning also - less Eyes on it.

Get a Thread to take off , staying on topic and being in the normal area was good. Or directly have a good Idea and post directly to a Developer who is working on it.




Is it fair and good to have this option?
Was it ok that i did bypass the Forum with using Private Messaging?
Was my impression correct over the past existence of the Forum.

Is it fair if i ignored the Forum , the Open one or the Dev+ and used a source only I and the Developers participate in.

Is it fair that this is still ongoing?



But i also must say - It was awesome and i am happy i did always keep ears open to every person and all.
I have a very "neutral position" - jumping back and forth about the Portalrium Decisions over the last years.


A lot was very awesome and i have not forgotten. A lot i did find very disappointing and questionable.

But i read alto also about how brutal and unforgiving it is to work in the Gaming Business.
A very insecure Business to work in in regards to Job Security.

Lay Off happy it is. You need to be very flexible and be willing to move a lot in that business. You need to sustain an amount of critical customers like no others.

Creating a Good Game is so hard. And actually i have learned - You can´t make a Promise about how a Game shall be. That is stupid.
Darkstarr tried back then tried to somehow loosen all up when he came to the Team back then. Trying to explain all is fluid and may change. But we had all been sold before that.

Also Kickstarter is not purchasing a finished Product.

And what was very good is that we all had , besides those stupid Steam Link, the option to jump off the train with the market Portalarium created.

So at the end the risk is low.


Ok.

This was now an emotianl thread i might have deleted.

Just an example.

Why - Because it is 1. Emotinal.

It is 2. Will cause a not nice discussion
Is is 3. Attacking the Developers itself - who at the end only had been nice to take the time to also respond to Private Messages and wanted to be nice.

I think at the end to many different Jobs and Skills are expected form just people who create a Game we all even had been able to jump off financially if we did not like it.

At the core this Haters, Supporters and all - It is nothing special for Portalarium. Those Positions exist in every Game. Depending on the Fan Base that pre existed more or less paccinate.

But it is the same blabla at every open Game Development.

Either you can deal with participating with a Early Access Game or participating with an unfinished Game or better to be a Customer waiting for a released Game before spending money.

We are responsible as customers.

So i have been a Whale , i have been a Hater, i have left my Mark in this Game on many places - from pictures, to Houses you are living in , to RowHouses, to Assets i suggested and even Town Looks. Only because Developers did let me participate. Even the little Items you purchase to place on your desk.. so profit.

I am ripped apart. I also love the Reddit Users. Jup. and those bad people you all are afraid off. They are just like me. They loved a Game , a time they plaid a Richard Game. A memory. Because all of us have a passion , something we did choose. Something that is not harmfull.
And they participated.

A Game.

 

The signal to noise ratio in the forums is really low. Most things discussed and most things proposed isn't necessarily feasible nor reasonable. We commonly contradict each other or wish for opposing things.

So if I was project lead I'd recommend any devs in my project to stay away.

Now the same goes for reading and responding to PM. The signal to noise is higher due to there being no opposition but that just means you as a dev need to explain some of the things.

Again if I was project lead I'd recommend against it.

However if I'd be a dev I'd love to get some input or feedback.
It's like with movie stars reading the YouTube comments. Sure there are bad stuff but we all strive for recognition somehow.

So if I was a dev and got a PM on a feature I had done then of course I'd read it and respond.


While if I was in marketing I'd make sure that no dev communicate outside official channels. Just one rogue comment or a righteous dismissal could easily go viral and detonate. People have different skills and most of the devs wasn't hired on their merits in diplomacy or social media or customer service.
Also from a marketing perspective initially the message of player involvement and participation was much higher. When it is now in crunch time that such positive spin is more necessary than ever. So that is not good.

 

Hey Spoon. A big awesome Hug from me. I just always love how great you are as a person to communicate.

Just wanted to throw that out. I am a far more emotinal person. And i think that might be the reason why i may hit the delete thread button sometimes.

Out of impulse. Feeling of having to change my position. Having to rethink the other position and insecure if my opening thread was ok or not...

I had in the past people asking where my thread did go. I apologize afterwards for ruining the time they did do respond. But most of the times i explained it and they had understood.



Edit: Back on Topic - I agree with all you did say in your post. I liked your explanation and position.

 

As opposed to a censored dictatorship?

 

Ok so what is the point in your thread? Yes for most of us it has been an emotional roller coaster ride brought on by our own expectations of what we wanted this game to be or not be. I think we still don't totally know all it can be. Many things over the years will determine this and 'if' some ideas are taken from one of us that adds something unique and special to the game then so be it. I have never wanted rewards, titles, or great approval ratings for anything I've said or done to participate here. In fact I will refuse it. I just want a game that is rich and and full of many possible experiences. One that will entertain, mystify, change and randomize over time to keep the experiences fresh, rewarding, challenging, perplexing, fun, and satisfying.

Now this is a lot to ask of one game, but still most of us have continued to ask for this game to be all things over the years with our heart and soul and will it be that? Well that depends on the future and many things. So we can discuss it of course with all the what ifs and etc and I'm sure we will. So imo whether we talk by pm to devs or post here is individual circumstances. I'm sure if we have a private concern we can mention it privately.

For one I love to hear ideas from the community and feedback and the devs are very busy. I also have pm'd but not often as I know they are busy and not with secret ideas even though I have considered it when the boards are at their craziest and less constructive.

Right now is a good time on the forums. I see many posting constructive feedback and ideas. I am very proud of the community for pulling together to help the release at this crucial time.

 

Maybe we should delete the Discord server as well. That bypasses the forums, causes eyeballs to not look at topics, and you can directly message the devs there, too.

 

You're lucky Myrcello that some devs have answered you... only two devs every replied to me and I sure write alot

and as you said it was just to be nice, and not to reply to my concerns or consider my feedback

The issue to me with private being the most used channel is that it gives us the impression that the devs had all those wonderful ideas but in fact it was mostly suggestions from players and they take all the credit for it, unless of course its an independant program or webpage.

The forum is the ideal filter for those ideas, instead of going on a limb and shooting a new feature straight to QA, the ideas here are dissected and opposed and they end up in a more refined manner if everyone is considered equals and respect is a principle.

That requires a minimum of 3 people... a PR person which separates expectation from projections, a good moderator/community builder, and a kind of arbitrator who can handle upfront hate and settle disputes publicly so people learn and understand instead of using censorship that causes people to repeat the same mistakes in communication over and over again until people rage quit...

We have half a person right now, working on other things at the same time...

 

@Myrcello - I'm sorry, I tried really really hard to read and comprehend your post (I actually read it through twice) and I cannot for the life of me figure out what your point is.

I "think" you are questioning whether we should be allowed to contact a Dev directly via PM... but most of your post describes many other things like the Kickstarter, your emotions, to home deco to reddit posters.

I am completely confused with what you are talking about. And I mean that with no disrespect.

If your main point was the question about our ability to speak directly to a Dev... all that other stuff just confuses things for me.

 

Appology. Happens sometimes to me that i miss my mark.

But overall to summerize it - i was attacked for being honest about why i sometimes delete threads and basically was told that people should be warned about posting on my threads as i waste time on them.

I got mad because i dedicated alot of passoin over the years, i think i even did keep a community together with ongoing participation on all ends of story and opinions.

It hurted my feelings hard to read that people should be warned to post on my threads.
And calling me disrespectful.


So i ended up just doing what he said - writting within an angry emotional state what is going on.

I thought if deleting on occasion a Thread i think i started bad is such a big thing then Private Messaging with Developers ignoring the opinion of all other players should be an outrage.


So to summarize my motivation of how this thread did go off my fingers.


And yes. it would have been normally a Thread i would have self moderated myself and probably restarted after i cooled down.

 

I tend to think we pester the developers too much. We produce a lot of noise.

Instead, maybe there's some kind of elected group of representatives who we provide feedback to, who digest that feedback and discuss/negotiate with the developers. That may be more effective.

 

I prefer my own voice. I don't expect comments from devs on my posts. I know they read them and that's good enough for me. It's their game to develop and hopefully mine to enjoy.

 

The game is not a democracy. No game is. Can we at least agree on that?

I understand that ideally there would be no backroom conversations. That when someone went to SOTA CON (just for example) and talked to the development team, they would just have small talk. How's the weather? Do you have any big plans for the weekend? What's your favorite color, blue? Mine too!

But people that take the time to travel to an event and get developer time are likely going to ask questions, and those questions are likely going to have answers. And because not every conversation is live streamed some of that information may be privately obtained. What game isn't this true in? What walk of life isn't this true in? It's kind of how the world works. Private conversations are private.

I count on the developers to manage the noise effectively. I count on the developers to run their business as they believe it needs to be run. And although I don't agree with every decision they make or every person they may listen to, I understand that at the end of the day the developers are honestly trying to make the best game they can with the money, time, and resources they have at their disposal. That's their number one goal! And my assumption is that any private conversations they may have are a means to that end.

So if I write something that is ignored. I assume the developers didn't have time or feel it was necessary to respond to it. I try hard not to take offense when that happens. If it's something that I feel requires more of an official response, I may send in a customer support ticket. Those conversations are private too, but you can usually be assured that you'll get at least a short reply back. All of these forms of communication are very similar to anything someone might talk about in discord, private forum messages, or even a personal email. All of these can be ignored, and outside of a Utopian model of non-communication for the sake of collectively removing every voice from communicating so that no single person feels left out, I don't see where this discussion could be very productive.

Please don't read this as:
1. Trying to get the thread locked.
2. Trying to derail the thread.

I've never done either of these things in the history of my forum posting. Never, not once despite some of the feelings to the contrary. I'm just very good at arguing my points to the hilt, and sometimes that results in new conversations that may have been better served by making a new thread. Never been intentional to get a thread locked or derailed though. Never.

Please also do not misunderstand this as:
1. Trying to control the narrative.

If anything, I'm giving my two cents here (as I have in many other threads) and when people dismiss what I say, I've debated with them. It takes two people to debate, and I'm amazed that sometimes only one person gets labeled for trying to control the narrative. Sometimes those people are told to "take it to PM" which is an interesting resolution considering the OP.

 

100% Agree with you Baron. So if i would now delete my own tread after noticing it is actually going to be noise and unproductive. I think it would be ok? Or should i Edit now my Post. Will that not even confuse more people at this stage.

So this post is a nice example we can now all further discuss - Is the option to delete your own Thread good. I would say yes.

I am not hitting the delete Thread Button now.

I let it role on our unproductive Thread.


But who is waisting now the people times more. The person who just leaves his crap or the person who takes responsibility and self moderates himself.

 

If you were to delete your own thread here I think that would be fine. I think the only time that seems shady is when someone is in the marketplace and they're trying to cover their tracks.

 

This Thread will Selfdestruct in 1 hour.

If you feel it should stay alive screenshot it and discuss it further on a source of your choice.

 

Suit yourself. It's your prerogative whether you'd like to sacrifice efficacy for your "voice" being drowned out.

 

Some people operate from an emotional stance. Some people operate from a calculating stance. Some of us just shoot from the hip at times before we think a thing through.
I think perhaps taking a thought from Socrates might be in order: "Know Thyself". For example I'm pretty thick skinned it's really really hard to offend me. I had one of my best laughs ever when I saw somebody had posted on reddit and claimed I was a whale given speshial treatment. Or when I was called a White Knight. I'm not bothered if someone else has an opposing position...I find I often learn from those and oft times when considering what others say I have changed my thinking on a thing entirely.

You on the other hand may be more sensitive. Perhaps what you might want to do is use draft's before posting and give yourself time to reflect before clicking Post. it's also highly possible that while you may think.. oh.. that didn't sound right or w/e, somebody else might derive something from your post even you hadn't thought of. As to being able to send a msg directly...I trust the devs to be professional enough to decide if they need to reply. I don't take it personally when I send @Chris his daily dose (j/k, I'm not THAT bad) harassing him about Polearms or loot. I Do try, for the most part to refrain from unnecessary messaging as I want them to get the job I'm helping to pay for done. There are times though when there is something I feel needs to be brought to the attn of the team that is best not aired in a public forum. I don't think we need to cut off those lines of communication.

Hopefully that makes sense.

cheers

 

Thanks. I think that was clear in my post. I've had plenty of efficacy in the last 4 years.

 

That was actually helpful and constructive.
Thank you. Really liked it.

- selfdestruct of this thread turned off. To many long and nice posts