Silent declaration of being disappointed by founder mass production

To each their own, but I'm of the opinion that if it benefits the game, I'm less concerned about someone's bruised sense of exclusivity.

 

so much for a quiet thread.....

 

Selfish would denote demanding something that was not offered by the developers. SotA is neither a charity fund, or a non-profit freeware title being developed. It's an upfront for profit business, and the rewards offered and shown by the original Kickstarter were entirely intended to entice backers to pay for funding.

The fact that they did, and continue to do so, meant that the SotA team had the opportunity to go to work on this game. Limited time rewards and offers are not only common practice in business sales, it's also a basis of most sales contracts when expecting monies before products are delivered. If anything, it's the definition of selfishness to expect and demand equal rewards, when the original deadline had already passed.

I'm not a Founder; I missed that opportunity due to outside issues at the time. But I personally am grateful to those who did pony up their hard earned cash at the time it was most needed to get the ball rolling, and I can understand why so many are upset that the "exclusive" rewards offered were sold as false bill of goods.

It boils down to integrity; Portalarium asked for monies in exchange for limited rewards, and have since changed their rules to suit their own profit. It's not surprising this has caused trust issues as a result.

 

Ha! This is a great reply, but still not exactly the same thing, and you're obviously smart enough to know that.

SotA is not Google, not yet. If it were, then the Founders would have a much better reason to be upset. How about I give you the IPO price for Loud Cloud, I'll even let you pay double!

 

Not my fault, I tried but some people didn't like it.

 

Indeed, we didn't receive equity nor really anything enforceable by law (?). As a point of etiquette though, I think it is logical to reward those who pledge greater dollars values or who have to wait longer. It is simply the norm.

 

YES! Bingo!

That's really what's at issue here. It's nothing more than the fact that Portalarium uses words like "exclusive" and "limited" that do not conform to the average person's understanding of said words.

That's really what the problem is here, and I agree completely. It has not been a good start for the Portalarium business decision team in this regard. All the other stuff about selfish and not selfish and deserve and don't deserve, that's a distraction.

 

I've seen many other kickstarter project do similar things, so I'm not necessarily surprised. I could gift LTI in Star Citizen, but that wouldn't impart the ability for you to be a veteran or early backer. That had problem associated with it, and how SotA is handling it would eliminate much of that. At the higher tiers, the differences between rewards was huge and at a premium in cost. In my opinion, this contributed greatly to the lack of post KS support. Ultimately SotA finished with roughly 22.5k backers. The last year, they've only brought in around maybe 5000 additional backers increasing by 25%. Meanwhile, Star Citizen had around 34.5k backers at the end of the KS campaign, and have done rather well continuing to build interest and support having over 380.5k backers currently.

I remember reading a forum post that had a link to video where LB had indicated yes, you could get founder status by gifting, and later in the very thread moderators were stating that wasn't the case. There's been misinformation going around for a long time. The moment it was cleared up (only recently), things changed rather quickly. But what does it mean to you? The only difference in what people get today, is their perception of rarity. Nothing was taken away, save for the potential exclusivity and bragging rights. If the pledge was an investment to be resold, I can see were one might be irritated. If supporting the game was a primary reason one backed in addition to getting some nice things, then you haven't lost anything and will hopefully see the number of backers continue to grow. Hopefully this will allow them to develop features more deeply, and provide a better end experience for everyone.

I think what they did is ultimately good both for the relatively few current benefactors in comparison to founders, and they are likely quite aware that it would generate some backlash. There are some things that haven't changed for founders, and early backers. They receive preference in lot selection, and there are sill many rewards that are based on when you pledged that "new" founders won't be receiving. While they may be minor to some, they are differences. I would like to see Portalarium maybe do one last exclusive item, for those who pledge prior to April of 2013 perhaps for those who need to feel extra special.

To me, what this primarily changes is that people are going to be working a little harder to get people interested in the game and taking advantage of the referral. It will take existing benefactors and entice them to bump their pledge levels. One thing to consider is that Benefactors were a minority to begin with, and of those you can bet that only a fraction were at the Citizen and above begin with. Most of the people who would pledge $500 to something like this already did along time ago, and the majority of new faces will be at a level you shouldn't feel threatened by. Of course there will be exceptions.

 

What currently makes me even more sad is the fact, that people like Grayhawk and others have to put up with accuses of being "selfish" from the Owains and Gracekains of this world. Just for stating their disappointment (which I share). I don't think that I like where this is going.

However, reading through the growing number of unbiased and not-so-unbiased postings, I (re-)thought about why I am actually sad about this "Founder-Gate". And actually Grayhawk's compilation of the "History of Founder" helped.

First and foremost:

• I do not begrudge the former benefactors their newly acquired Founder status
• I do not begrudge the "Founder resellers" their referral bonuses
• I do not begrudge Portalarium the extra coins
• I do not begrudge anyone having extra bonuses, benefits or items
• I'm not questioning the rights of Portalarium to change the rules or the business model as we progress.

The reasons that actually do make me sad are:

• I don't care about items and bonuses. I don't even know exactly what a "Citizen" will get after launch. All I was hoping for when backing was a tiny little sign of appreciation that I backed early and that I backed strongly. For me the tiny little title "founder" was that appreciation. This appreciation has been taken away. Or maybe "diluted" is the better term.
• It was disappointing for me to learn that again it's all about squeezing the very last coin out of this project. God, how I wish there was a project out there that didn't come up with asset stores, in-game purchases, player marketplaces, pay-to-whatever in every little niche one can imagine. I'd be more than happy to back such a project with double and triple the amount that I spent for SotA, if only that would spare me with this commercialized overhead. But through "Founder-Gate" I had to learn that Portalarium is just doing the same thing as any other "pay-to-something-squeeze-out-as-many-coins-as-possible" project. And it's all being applied as "salami tactics". The ballyhoo in the newly created "Player Marketplace" around "Founder-Gate" was just the last straw that broke the camel's back for me. This is not Portalarium's problem nor is it the problem of the various "Founder resellers". This is my problem. I confess that I expected too much from this project.

This is why I am sad. And if this means that I also have to put up with accuses of being "selfish" from the Owains and Gracekains of this world, so be it.

 

A game with colletible things is always an investment to be resold, maybe not today, maybe not in 5 years but collectibles always have a resold value. That's why people collect/collected UO/EQ figures or things that comes in any sinlgleplayer limited edition for example, knowing that if they just get bored of them those things have a large public of collectors seeking them and a value that increments because they are "rare". If I just wanted to back the project I would have backed less, I wanted some exlusivity on my added backing value.

So its like they added those things to catch people to pay more and getting fooled now?

 

In no way has anyone lost one thing ,the fact that some of us wasn't privy to the info. about a new Ultima game , shouldn't give them a leg up over, every one that jumped in on Kichstart when they did hear about it. Just maybe it will bring in even more money and people to the game. Can't see either being a bad thing. Not a lot of point in playing a mmo game all alone, with tons of stuff no one well ever see

 

That's more or less what I think but I couldn't have written it that well...

Its the first project I back but I've seen from a safe distance others and I must say that this is the one with more un-happy people and drama so far. Maybe I haven't seen many... Who knows...

 

I do understand how it could be thought that by original founders that something was taken away from them. Yes that is if they want to look at it like that. What good does that do. What is important is that we make a very awesome game. I had no intentions of discussing the fact that I was a benefactor only, even though I am VERY committed to this game, I have and will support it
it to the best of my abilities, but really can we get on with the show now? We are all is this together, why make enemies of each other when what is important is that we make an awesome game. There are a zillion ways to look at something, Let's put our thoughts to game features and what we want with constructive observations and comments for the developers. The loophole was discovered, and if you are going to find a loophole why not find one that HELPS the game. Maybe there are bruised feelings and disappointment that it didn't turn out the way it was supposed to . I do thank the founders for seeing the game first, and also for seeing the potential in it from the start so that it could get started, that is amazing that it happened. I missed it and really I was looking so hard for something at that time and still I missed it. In the meantime let's go forward to get the best game we can.

 

I agree with what you have said about founders, but I don't agree with the ruse of using a public forum to air your own opinion whilst telling others they cannot air theirs.

 

I think the original Kickstarter founders should get to pick from an exclusive "slap across the face" emote or a "I just lost most of my confidence" emote.

 

Don't say much? Ok

 

Guys, this thread is quickly deteriorating. Please keep in mind the forum rules when posting.

 

The first part is where I might have a problem, as to what does upgrading to founder give me other than a small discount and no items for my Knight, wohoo (unless I missed that the time frame for these items is also pushed forward and all new founders also have access to the said items.. might have to do a silent demonstration about that.. which I won't, but I was thinking it.. )

and I am an exception to that last , saw RG interview by Warren Spector (edit: actually did a lot of video reviews of interviews with RG) and just really liked who RG is as a person and identified with him, so I gave him cash after finding out too late about the KS. I did play UO for years, but when I found out about EQ, I didn't look back.

Also, now that I read what you posted about Star Citizen, I'm not really intereseted in playing it. I'll always be thinking about how much I might have missed by not being there at the beginning.. kinda weird Edit: meh, I took the plunge anyhow, how can I miss THAT opportunity! hehe

 

In the plain and simple,

These new posts of upgrading to a "quasi" founder status, are the generous gifts offered through original founders. They are not offered by the company it's self.

The fact that the window was opened by previously company mentioned ability of the original founders to be able to "gift" to others and thus aide their friends and followers has nothing further to do with the company's decisions about the founders ability which leaves the question of these gifts as being someone's fault rather than ability to gift has created many , many , many of these run on sentences which we are forced to read when the proses of the abilities as founders were clearly previously described as to the intent of what powers the founders could have to personally effect the way these run on sentences were first would be created in a wholesome and friendly environment for those of us who can find such a grateful host for having us join them in unison to create even more run on sentences has nothing to do with the grief that is now running though the rest of the more enclosed founder's list of founding members ...
err..umm..
~TL~

 

+1