Some Problems I am seeing

Hello.

I am a immigrant from Lotro and a friend from over there encouraged me to take a look at this game, so I spent the $45 to try it out and I am seeing some problems that trouble me greatly. I know that the game is in pre-alpha and that some of these may get alleviated as time goes on but, as it stands now, these are the problems that are really ruining the fun for me in this game.

1) Starting location: After the training mission, the game dumps you in Soltown. After wondering around the area of Soltown looking to kill some creatures and level up and after getting my butt handed to me every single time, my friend tells me ''I had the same problem and I looked for a video on YouTube. You need to go to Owl'shead and level in that area. Soltown's too tough for beginners.".

Well, isn't that nice? The game dumps you in a area that is too tough for beginners and you have to trek across the landscape to another town before you can start leveling. I shouldn't have to go checking out YouTube videos to see where it is that they expect you to start your leveling up.

If Soltown is too difficult for beginner players, why does the game drop you off there instead of Owl'sHead?

2) The overhead map: Ok, this one is just a personal preference of mine. Not everyone is going to share this view obviously.

I like seamless worlds. In Lotro, with the exception of a couple of spots, the entire world is seamless. You can walk from Michel Delving in the Shire to Rivendell and beyond without seeing one loading screen.

Over here, as soon as I step outside of town, I see a loading screen and then I am into a overhead map. I run to my destination, click enter and then I am inserted into a tiny arena where I can hunt mobs and/or collect resources. But don't stray outside the boundaries otherwise, you are hit with another loading screen and the game dumps you back into the overhead map. Really immersion breaking to me.

3) Player Housing: This is a fine addition to any MMO. Players love to own houses especially for RP purposes. I do have doubts about how Sota is handling it though.

First, all the housing is going to be in actual towns. This sounds great on paper but in reality, it severely limits the amount of housing that will be available and if you release it like this, new players are going to be really disappointed that they can't acquire a advertised feature of the game.

Second, the ability to own multiple houses. Again, good on paper. In reality, not so much I think. You know what's going to happen after release? After the founders get their first dibs on their houses (Which they should get so don't get me wrong on this), some of the big shots are going to go on a spending frenzy and buy up lots of other lots reducing the availability of lots for the average player who couldn't afford to give the game a thousand dollars or more.

The way Lotro handles it is that all the housing is in neighborhoods and as soon as the neighborhoods fill up, they make more neighborhoods. This means that the houses are not in the towns but at least everyone has a chance to get a house.

Perhaps the developers could make it so that you can buy a house that someone else owns but yours will be on another layer?

4) Combat: Ok, this is the great grandaddy of problems with this game. There are several threads on this already but here is my take and sorry, I am not going to sugar coat it.

I have never seen a more clunky piece of crap as the combat in this game. I have to stand on top of the opponent to hit it (even with a two handed sword) and my guy keep flipping around so that he is facing away from the enemy. The skills don't really seem to do anything except drain your focus and put a symbol over your head.

And then there is the deck...

I learn a skill but I can't use it because it hasn't come up yet. Yeah, that makes sense...
If I wanted to play a card game, I'd play a card game and a MMO should not be a card game. I know that you can lock the skills but that comes with a serious focus penalty so it's clear that the developers want you using the random decks.

I can only hope that some of this will be alleviated when the game releases because if the combat is the same as it is now, there is no way that I will play this game.

On a side note: I showed this game yesterday to a friend of mine who plays lots of MMO's and he told me that he saw nothing in the game that made him want to play it. This is what you are up against.

 

The starting location is a placeholder. The real entry into the game involves the story that they aren't sharing yet.
Starting in Soltown put the player nearer the new content they want us to test.

Dual scale map is not going to change.

People can't seem to grasp that this isn't an MMO. It has some MMO-like features, but isn't an MMO.
We need to focus on embracing selective multi-player, and discourage using the term MMO, or this will remain a problem.

Housing isn't necessary, and is intentionally restricted to give it value for fund-raising.
This is something that needs to be made more clear, or new players will continue to be disappointed.

I don't have much to say about combat. It's not finished, and I'm not going to put any effort into it until it is.

 

Sorry, not a MMO? What would you call it then? It has hundreds of people all playing in the same world at the same time. Yes, you can play in single-player mode but what else would you call a game like that?

And housing is only going to be for the special few? Way to sell a game!

I am glad that the starting area is only a placeholder though. I hope they start you out somewhere more reasonable.

 

Portalarium does not call it an MMO.
When game websites write reviews calling it an MMO, Portalarium asks them to change that to selective multiplayer.

So, I would call it selective multiplayer.

You know the game is made up of scenes, right? And the scenes have population caps and timers.
Some of the population caps are as low as one person.
After a certain amount of time, no new players can enter an active scene. The game spins up a new instance for them.

Calling it an MMO is just wishful thinking.
There are lots of folks that want it to be an MMO. They want it to be the MMO they've always wanted.
But it's not. It's just got some areas that have higher population caps, and things that make it seem like an MMO.

Portalarium really needs to start making that clear, and move people away from the MMO mindset, and get them to start embracing the new selective multiplayer game they've always pitched it as. You can play solo, and you can play with a few friends, and you can play with a few strangers. But you aren't in a massively multiplayer world.

 

Number one is just to put you closer to the new content.

Number two I agree with, though I've gotten used to the overland map at this point. Loading screens are quick for me any way. .

Number three I'm confused with because what you are describing between sota and lotro with the housing seems like the same thing.

Number four I somewhat agree with. Combat does need some love, it needs to be a little bit more exciting. Maybe some better animations and definitely better sounds. The deck system is what it is, and from what I've gathered isn't going away so I've gotten used to it. It's pretty easy to master once you figure it out. If you've learned an ability and it isn't popping up in your deck you likely haven't placed the glyph for that ability into your deck yet. I know you don't like having to watch videos to learn the game but that's why your voice on the matter is needed during pre alpha, so bravo for speaking up.

Here is a video that helped me learn the deck system better though.

 

1) was already answered.

2) I hear is due to budget constrains. And it's been said that will be easier to just plop down more towns and scenes in a map like the overworld. As for load screen, it's actually improving a bit. And of course, not optimized yet so yeah, it's supposed to get better - eventually.

3) You can buy a house in game though. Will take a bit of effort but then if you're not willing/can't plop down the $$ maybe it's acceptable? I wouldn't mind working for it - if I had too. Beside, I hear there are suppose to be 'other' options - like renting a place.
Might be a nice alternative - especially if you wanted to travel around first before settling down.

4) I like it. You don't. Can do with more work though. I'll leave it at that

 

This might be due to an issue with the animation system in the current release. Some skills don't actually complete properly, and result in only the symbol and no end-effect.

Just something to keep in mind when ruminating on what you are seeing.

 

You are right PorkyPine. People who have been playing this game since last year have far less problems because we as a community help each other out with tips, etc. I suggest you do the following: Create a new thread saying you are a newbie that wants to travel with someone in the know about this game. You will receive many hits and should pick them all. That is the key PorkyPine. They will have you become an expert before he month is out. Just create a new thread, ask and you shall receive.

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/top-12-must-haves-for-sota.24560/


Hi and welcome PorkyPine. It is totally understandable what you are seeing right now. It can be a shock. You haven't come from nothing in the game to now so it will surprise you. Check out my thread. The link is above. There's a lot more to this game than shows at first look, so enjoy reading the visions for the game. I think it will be wonderful. I don't disagree with the combat clunkiness at all. I expect that to get ironed out. Sounds are going to make a huge difference. I also played LOTRO for 4 years. I like our housing much better, don't be fooled by what you don't see, it's mostly just not there yet. It was so cool today while doing the hat quest we were running around looking for him in a sewer and we found an invisible wall, well one you could walk through. As we get closer to launch more and more secrets will appear. While you are wandering around, if you notice something odd like a skeleton sitting in an odd place, he may later be a mystery to solve. We're gonna have a lot of fun things to figure out. The world once you're used to it will seem huge and the maps gives the ability to drop in new scenes so we'll get more of a changing world. We are just not there. It has taken so long just to get the systems in. Then after that it take some time to get them to have all the features and bugs ironed out. So that is why we are here. Thank you for your feedback and a hearty welcome to you.

 

1) Starting location changed recently: until R15 it was in Braemar, a much more newbie-friendly starting location (where I suggest everyone to move anyway!), but away from the new content of the game. I think they changed it for some ~reasons~, and they may as well change it back.

2) I hate dual map and loading screens and change of perspective. But it's here to stay. Technical reasons, mostly. I just accepted that, and moved on.

3) Portalarium said they wanted to implement the renting and sharing of properties. It's just not in yet. And by now, with PaxLair catalyzing so much housing attentions, you could actually find an impressive amount of free space all over Novia, even in Ardoris (an absolute first!). At release, they said they want property to be valuable, but not to the point of blocking the determined player from obtaining an home with ingame gold coins.

4) It's an hotly debated and fundamental aspect of the game. So far, I'm inclined to consider it the weakest leg of the table. They said that in R18 combat will be the main focus of their efforts. I'm comfortably sit on my fence, thinking that something has to be done.

 

Hi PorkyPine. Welcome to the game, such as it is. The window before you log in reminds you that the game is a construction zone, and it is. Most players have never seen an online game at this spot in development. I think it's important that we all tell the Dev's what we think works and what doesn't. Majora's thread that she linked above is a great place for listing your concise wants for this game.

I just wanted to mention something in regard to this:

Your friend plays a lot of MMOs...I do, too. That's kind of the problem, right? The market is flooded. A new game comes out every few months with bright and shiny things, and we all race to get to max level and then deactivate our accounts and wait for the next one. Or wait for it to go free to play and add expansion content, and play until we max that out and then dump it again. The games now aren't engaging in the long term. Other than this game, there isn't one I look forward to logging in to on a regular basis. Why is that? Is it because there's constant new thrills and new places to fight every day? Awesome game mechanics? Not in particular, and it's not realistic for a company to pump a ton of content in every month to keep us playing... The older games didn't do that. There were expansions, of course. But why did I keep coming back to those games? The community. We play lots of MMOs because the community isn't there. Gold spammers, griefers, trolls, kill stealers... I mostly avoid other players in the games I play. Good players are diffused over all the MMOs out there, jumping from place to place, treating them like hotel stays. I believe what Portalarium aims to accomplish is a game that people are invested in; people who live here. Something you want to play long term. Look at the calendar of player events. At this stage, that's where to be. There are so many people out there who care about this game..Tournaments, games, contests, Avatars Radio. The game needs improvement, I agree. But I like to think most of us play to enjoy the time we all have together. Try viewing the game as a picnic instead of a treadmill, and you just might change your opinion of the game.

 

Welcome PorkyPine!

 

In Sota, housing is in towns with a finite number of lots available. In Lotro, houses are in "Neighborhoods" outside of the town areas. Initially, they are finite as well but when all the neighborhoods in a given area are filled up, the game generates new neighborhoods giving everyone in the game a chance to own a house. The downside to this method is that the houses are outside the towns in their own little instance. In this game, once all the houses are filled, that is it. No more. If you are going to limit the housing to just a select few, that strikes me as a elitist attitude among the developers. One that I don't care to support.

Majoria70: Thank you for the kind response but I'm not sure what the point of your link is supposed to convey. That this game has a wishlist among it's players? Every MMO has that. (And yes, this game to me is a MMO so I am calling it that.)

 

They already said that NPC towns will be added as needed. Problem solved.

In R15 they added 25 NPC forest towns, to accomodate the new "three lots" allowance per player. So far, I think we never really ran out of housing space.

Elitist?

I'd say they are looking to encourage financing the development. Selling housing is a tool for that end.

In the Add-On Store, it's easy to find there is still ample housing available:

Row lots: 960/1000 free (96% available)
Village lots: 150/450 free (33% available)
Town lots: 88/100 free (88% available)
City lots: 41/50 free (82% available)

And these lots will have priority over regular ingame deeds. This guarantees at least 1600 houses by release (and not counting rent-free deeds in pledges).

This is elitist?

I'm tempted to call the game as the game creators want it to be called:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=19#faq_05

Quoting for the lazy:
<< Will this be an MMO?

Shroud of the Avatar is a new form of multiplayer online role playing game we are calling a Selective Multiplayer Game. >>

If you want to call it a refrigerator, a platypus, a handkerchief, or a particle accelerator, more power to you. But it will still be developed as a SMG.

 

I understand what you are saying now. Fortunately like Katrina has stated, the devs have said before that they will add new NPC towns for housing as needed. Portalarium posted information about adding new towns as the game grows here. https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?p=5920

 

In your link Katrina, even the devs don't know how they are going to divvy out the lots. Even by their own admission, people are going to have problems with whatever method they use. And how many of those 1600 lots are going to be gobbled up by those with the money to do it? And are the developers really planning on having fewer then 1600 people playing this game? Seems that they are setting a low bar here.

If they can pull this off and make it so that the average person playing the game has the same opportunity to own a house (With the right amount of gold of course. I am not talking about free or cheap housing here just available housing), then I will gladly take back the elitist comment. In fact, I'll take it back now. I don't think they are being elitist but I don't think they have thoroughly thought through the implication of this here. If housing just becomes a big grab-fest for those with the money, then players like me are going to feel shut out and will just quit the game in frustration.

 

Oh, maybe I should also mention that my numbers don't take into account:

- the ~200 POTs sold. Even if all of them were just Holdfast (and they aren't), we're talking about another 4200 village lots equivalent (or 16800 row lots).

- the pledges with rent-free land lots included. Starting from Ancestor with 1 row lot (my pledge, atm), going upward, there are many, many more land lots to consider for initial land allocation

Not knowing how many people will be at launch, I can't really foresee what will happen. I secured a row lot, and my guild will have at least two POTs. I'm pretty sure there will NOT be land for everyone, cheaply. I'm pretty sure the determined player WILL have his/her own land, without too much fuss, and without spending a dollar more than the initial $45.

 

the OP points have been brought up each month by someone new as far back as 15 months ago, and then i got sad and stopped looking .

The Hendoman

 

No my point was not that is a wishlist, it is an opportunity. This game is still being developed from our feedback and ideas. Many of these things will be in the game anyway eventually. There is 'much' more land coming. I was just giving you an idea of what this game will be. You can definitely have a home in sota when it launches I would not let that worry you. I didn't have a house in UO for 2 years and I didn't worry, I used the inns etc. There will be options for housing. People will leave or their circumstances will change, there will be a housing market. The housing in Shrouds can't be compared with LOTRO or even Archeage. It is not the same thing. There will be rentals, probably inns, and home sales and 5 years of new lands. It is too early to worry, but I know people do. I just wanted you to see how cool this game will be by reading the thread, but no worries. You get to chose how you feel. Welcome anyway.

 

as for housing most founders and high spending player with be in a player owned town. There's tons of npc city's still to add for after Release players. I would say 1/6th of the city's been added. And only 1 of God only knows how many player owned towns to be added still. And with the r16 release I noticed a lot of open lots. And for r17 with pax 100s of lots become open just from 1 player town. And for pep like me. I'll be using a keep lot. And many a village. We can't have more then 3 lots anyhow unlike another game I know of where 1 player took 30 lots. I have to see his bill.