Stealing

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by ghostthealienhunter, Apr 22, 2014.

?

Should SOTA have the stealing skill?

  1. Yes.

    76.5%
  2. No.

    8.8%
  3. Maybe.

    14.7%
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  1. Lord Aventine

    Lord Aventine Avatar

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    On stealing, I do think it creates an edge-of-the-seat sort of fun. So long as there are severe penalties for it that balance risk and reward. For example, perhaps stealing could only be done in cities, where one would have to escape from after being flagged for PVP if caught. Or the opposing victim gets a heads up that you are snooping his pack and gets a 'first blow' right in PVP before the thief is flagged in PVP (as the instigator) and can respond. Or that the thief is flagged for open world PVP, while the victim is flagged for PVP only with that thief (so he cannot be ganked by other onlookers). Or if caught, the thief is teleported to a jail where they have to wait for an NPC jail keeper to come by and open the cell door. It seems there may be ways to balance this to enable what could be really fun role playing as a thief while giving them the risk due, while finding ways that others can participate consensually and have fun. It is only not fun when the thief can steal from anyone without any ramification.
     
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  2. Lord Bannor

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    Being stolen from should not involve loosing anything significant for the char being affected and if the thief only gains a few coppers nobody would do it.I like the stealing thought.
    I think that stealing should be taken one step further realising its a lot of programming involved.
    My thoughts are that a thief can not steal actual items from another player but an item representing that he has done so.

    So if he steals 10 "tickets" from 10 different chars or whatever it is representing a successful theft he would gain a title or a item from an item shop
    where you pay with these tickets, or both.
    There has to be a risk involved of course, maybe to loose all your tickets if you get caught or something more severe.
     
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  3. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    i would not mind using this "ticket" at all in the pve zones. in the pvp zones however, maybe things a little more precious :)
     
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  4. Johnny Black

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    You don't have to worry about me thieving anymore than a small amount of monies from you at any one time, the person you really have to worry about is Time Lord. That rapscallion is out to steal your savings account :p...

    If there does turn out to be Guild Banks in the game, then I think it should be a game mechanic where a thief could go in a loot the coffer; thus it is a form of PvP (just an economical kind).

    A weight system would do well to stop the pickpocket in taking the shield off your back and the magic mirror from your home.

    edit -

    Also, it would be pretty cool if you could be a cat burglar in the sense that you sneak into a museum or a guild hall and take one of their priceless pieces of art (or their mascot, here's hoping it's not a tiger).
     
  5. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    I agree! and nothing even remotely like "bags of sending" should ever enter the game!
     
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  6. Lord Bannor

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    I think guild banks should be safe.

    Agree on that the PvP zones should be higher rewards than PvE zone, maybe double of triple the number of "tickets"
    on a successful theft or a higher title. Or a different kind of "tickets" for a different shop with better quality items.
    At the same time of course the risk would be higher.
     
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  7. Johnny Black

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    Oh! Sorry, I meant it to be a PvP thing for the guild banks. It would only be if you are warring with another guild.
     
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  8. Lord Bannor

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    Edit: Since the edit function is not functioning for some reason, I really do not like the word tickets for this feature.
    Points, thief rewards.. almost anything else really.
     
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  9. Ravicus Domdred

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    as an option for guild warfare, what if the guild bank sometimes stored their guild "flag", or their guild "prized object" (lets say at night)(during the day the flag may be elsewhere such as on the roof of the guild hall). If the thief were to steal that object, the object would disappear until a ransom is met, or the opposing warring guild surrenders. It would be very difficult mind you to steal from a guild bank.
     
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  10. MalakBrightpalm

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    As I said earlier, what if players who's homes were in PvP towns could be burgled? What if home burglar proofing in New Brittania started including things like bear traps and trap doors, self-animating golemns, or extremely expensive multi-enchanted crossbow quarrels who's x-bows were rigged to fire off a tripwire? Maybe even a primitive laser tripwire? (all you need is a light sensitive trigger, and magick can do that, the narrow beam of light is actually pretty rudimentary.)

    At that point, MOST of the time the owner of a well defended Knight's Keep comes home and finds nothing out of place. Every so often he comes home and finds a dead thief, with all the expensive and sellable thieves tools that were brought for the adventure. Yay, free money! I think I'll spend it resetting my traps and upgrading my system!

    ... but every so often, the owner of the not-quite-as-well-defended-as-he-thought Knight's Keep will come home, or log in, to find his home empty, save for a note thanking him for his inadequate attention to home security.

    And there's your risk vs reward large target thieving right there.
     
  11. Ravicus Domdred

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    Love it!
     
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  12. Johnny Black

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    It's like that Quest for Epic Loot game! I do enjoy that idea a great deal, though I probably would only burgle expensive items (stuff I could conceivably carry in my backpack); unless I had a guild or a team of guys waiting outside with a get away horse and cart. :) My deal with burglarizing a home is that you'd need some conceivable to transport all those goods (I'm not a huge fan of the fitting of a dining room table and chairs on one's person).

    I really enjoy the trap ideas, it would also give a use to the non-combat pets (woof woof = "intruder alert"). Is there a tinker skill in this game yet? It would be cool to have a security firm (ADT or FrontPoint), and have a team of tinkers that specialize in traps.
     
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  13. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    "Contrast Creates Challenge"
    Theft is a very difficult thing to integrate into any game... other than the cheap pickpocket. It makes me very happy to read so many more minds focusing their well meant thoughts here on the subject.

    "This is an Evil Thread", almost as evil as the Cannibal's thread became, but not quite there yet ;)
    A "very few" posting members of our forums ever wish to have danger, or anything truly evil, or anything in consequences placed into our game... which I do find that fact very disturbing "indeed!" :confused: Yet safety, security and convenience seem to have the greatest support and that can only lead our way to an ever sunshiny teletubby world where all monsters and difficulties can be overcome or killed as long as we know the way to do it.

    At some point there is an undiscovered virtue that is a cousin of humility, where the Avatar in order to ascend must face a challenge that has no dominating way of overcoming it's immovable properties and dangers, where the only gain that can be had by it, is the knowledge that it is a constant and therefore can never be overcome.

    In order for me to be as "good" as I want to be, then there must be an "evil" that allows me to be so very good by contrast. If there is no contrast within our world of domination, then all challenges fade from their glory as well as loosing humility in it's most refined form.

    "We need more evil in the world and as evil as evil there can be had"
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  14. Johnny Black

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    Hey... I'm that cheap pickpocket... :D

    What would be the most evil thing you could do with thievery? Most likely taking something that leads to the loss of life (which we probably wouldn't be able to achieve in game, so cannibalism most likely wins most evil). In most games, the "evil" usually takes form in the story as the antagonist, thus the protagonist is automatically rendered as the "good" guy. I would very much enjoy a world where we had moral ambiguity, it would all about survival and getting ahead. I can't say that anyone who goes around "murdering" monsters for the main plot would be any more good than you or I stealing from someone (as all of us are progressing in our own manner). Alas, we live in a society, which dictates the parameters of what is deemed "good" and "evil." To be "evil" one must then go against the grain of what society deems to be a "good" act, in which people like me fall in (those who facilitate the underworld of thieves and murders). I enjoy doing "evil" characters because it allows me role play something other than what I am in real life (or am forced to be in most game stories). The thief is one of those fringe characters I enjoy doing because it takes a fare amount of effort and skill to master, and I can usually control how "evil" I want to be in that gaming session (petty crime to ruining someone's day).

    Holy cow! I've gone off topic! Let's get this conversation back on course...

    After discussing this topic so much, I badly want to be able be a thief in this game, not just the crepuscular peddler of poisons that I had planned.
     
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  15. Time Lord

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    "The Building of a Fellowship" The pickpocket I see as a common skill that I do expect to see inn our game in some form. Yet I would also enjoy seeing this skill have some cross over into Magery, but never as good as the physical act itself... perhaps a form of gem theft...

    "Expanding Fellowship"
    But the Mason's chisel , or Blacksmith's drill, or the Bard's music amplifier to muffle any noise or distract, or the Mountain Climber's Rope & Grapple seem to be the makings of a fellowship, which is very different from solo theft... "where the pickpocket is also needed" ;)

    Building fellowship, is a central part of our game, so it become important within our thieves community to that about all they ways we can have such a fellowship to be needed, or it's just a skill where only one can enjoy it's play.

    Gaining Portalarium support for anything is never easy, unless there is a fellowship type of adventure to be had or skill of an individual that must be included into an adventuring fellowship, to accomplish a task that is within the quest that is endeavored.
    "The ability to fully loot or speed up the looting time" is one such rogue skills that stealing could provide the answer for the need of a good pickpocket.
    But we also always need much deeper Ultima that even this alone can provide...
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  16. Brass Knuckles

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    Sounds like you will love the single player option or friends online version. I respect that we differ in opinions and I'm not going to change your mind.

    For the others that might be on the fence about it, done right it'll be good fun. I.e. consequences for stealing greater than the reward potential and limit it to the super easy crafting in the game and its a win win.
     
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  17. dp_dropout

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    Just like me, he will be able to enjoy the full game without having to deal with stealing, non-consentual PvP, looting and everything else you dream about. It's about time you deal with one simple fact: you will not be able to influence our (as in PvE players) gameplay at all with your PvP since it will be completely optional.
     
  18. Brass Knuckles

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    I think the pvp zones will solve all of our problems. Hopefully they will include all this pvp stealing and everything else related in these high resource areas. Just makes sense, safe for the pve crowd yet pulls the pvp family toghter for good fassion family reunion. Fighting over the resources should make for good times.

    Don't assume I'm trying to influence any of your play enjoy your game do what ever you do, the real fact is alot of people (most via poll results)are looking forward to pvp and stuff less honerable and portalrium has listened there are areas for both also diffrent modes of play.
     
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  19. Silent Strider

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    If you are talking about this specific pool, the pool does not discriminate between the skill being only usable on NPCs and the skill being usable on other players; some of the votes for the stealing skill being available are likely from players that want it available in PvE, but not necessarily in PvP. I myself don't have anything against the stealing skill existing, as long as it's never used by another player against any of my characters. Not to mention that forum pools are unreliable by nature due to forum participation not reflecting the player base; for example, this month a community manager for another MMO (who, supposedly, has access to this info) posted about how raiders+PvPers are literally over half the forum posters but only less than 10% of the actual players.

    It will be interesting to see how it all develops after launch. My gut feeling is that PvP will be far less active than PvPers expect, and the online servers themselves might be emptier than expected due to large volumes of players staying offline. For my part, if opting into PvP gives players a meaningful advantage, then I will eschew the online game and stay exclusively offline; no sense in being treated line a second class citizen due to my preferences regarding PvP when I can just flip a switch and escape all of this by playing offline.
     
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  20. Brass Knuckles

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    Lol
    Pvp offers an additional element to the game for the people who enjoy the additional challenges other players bring. Im jnot sure if your coming from a game like wow or played uo but in uo pre trammel the pvp stealing added a lot to the game. I believe they have a good system here where if you don't want anything to do with this additional option you can avoid it completely. Its possible that you may enjoy it though not from a hardcore pvpers stand point but mabey even an observer view point. I have fond memories of seeing pk party's hunt down pks I remember one event were like 10 people were chasing down 2 notorious pks on my server for the huge bounty on thier heads.. good times
     
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