Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by ghostthealienhunter, Apr 22, 2014.
Will this soon to be second greatest MMORPG (maybe the first next to UO) have the stealing skill?
I understand if stealing from other players is against the game's best interests. But stealing from NPC houses, literally looting gold/weapons/armor/clothes/items/books from NPC shelves, drawers, baskets, backpacks, bags, chests, crates, barrels, nightstands, armoires etc. is one of the things that always stuck out in U7 & U8. In 99.9999% of the games I've played a town with 10 NPC houses usually has only a few houses you can even go inside, and inside those houses you can usually only interact with a few objects. In U7 & U8 every single NPC house in the entire game can be entered & looted, stealing from NPCs is how the Avatar funded his entire world saving campaign. I made this in 2001...
In UO stealing was a great part of the game, there are so many epic stories from this simple skill alone. You were either doing it or watchful for it. The risk factor is part of what made UO the best. If it isn't already on the books, I suggest adding PVE/PVP shards with stealing/snooping enable/disabled. This way people can join the shards that are more like classic UO. And get that adrenaline rush when they are in trouble or causing it, and risk losing their items. Or they can join PVE shards if that's what they like doing and risk losing nothing.
Go right ahead and make it a skill. Can make some interesting experiences with it depending on how it is implemented. Would most likely be a PvP only implementation (against other players) as implementing into non-PvP (against other players) wouldn't really work with no way to get stolen items back. But sure, I am for it. Might make for some interesting hunts to find that thief who took something from you.
Game called Salem had nice handling of something like this (game came 2012?13?) & perma death. If you committed crimes like vandalism or stealing or murder, act left clues that could be found and then used to literally track that person (& s/he's home). The thing was they were timed, bigger crime let you track longer. You could also combine evidence to build up the time. Because in the end that thief could live at the other end of the world and it took hours & hours just to walk across the land.
Fun system & over all game if everyone would play by them selves or in really small groups. But in the end it was hundreds of players grouped tight inside multi layered lots with tons of layered walls and in the dead center their PvP sections tents where all the clues lead to...
The stealing skill was really quite useless to me in my experience with it. In the EA servers with the felucca and trammel split you couldnt really grab anything because everyone went to fel naked, either that or later on they always put item insurance on their things making it all un-stealable, and what really got me confused was why they brought this feature to seige perilous. I remember back in these days when I was trying to make a theif I was constantly hearing, "You can steal their regs and make them useles!!". Pfft... So instead of being a sneaky lil theif that grabs things and avoids conflict you HAD to be a PvP theif and meet conflict pretty much every time you grabbed regs and bandages, which was all you could grab.
Even on the private servers where they dont have any of those limitations on theives, your steal only able to grab up to 10 stones at a time and most of the time its something petty. I dont very often see people making theives anymore because its about as hard of a way to make a buck as the begging skill is. Thats pretty much how I categorize the stealing skill anymore, right with all those other skills that were pretty worthless in UO: begging, taste ID, cooking, spirit speak...
If you were really looking to commit a HUGE theft, you developed hiding and stealth and camped by someone's locked house, because they try to go over the lock down limit by not locking down items. They just lock the door and keep all their items loose because they can pretty much put as much as they can fit in a small house. Items in houses dont decay even if not locked down. Thats how it is on the private servers anyways...
Now with SotA... theft vs. other players is likely to not be something that I would be interested in pursuing. With all the loot limits there are already im guessing that stealing might be a bit of an unfair advantage due to the fact that with the ransom system one random item is given to the killer from the victim's inventory. With the stealing skill you would be able to get around the random item deal if your able to snoop the pack and choose an item that looks interesting. Of course, you might just have a mug skill where you run into someone and snag a random item out of their pack. But your probably going to get regs/bandages or just ONE item that really wasn't even worth going grey over.
I think that the only way to make the stealing skill fun and interesting is to develop it mainly with PvE in mind. Just look at lockpicking in UO. It was loads of fun. You were constantly running around and burglarizing dungeons. You could go to town after town snagging loot out of the locked chests there.. And it was all against NPC's no need to worry about greifing anyone. Just develop burglary/rogue vs. NPC and we can all have great fun with the "stealing" skill.
I'm not going to answer the pool because I find it awfully vague, but from my point of view:
- Stealing from other players: I don't care much about it's existence as long as I can opt out. I will do whatever is needed to assure I have access to all the PvE content without ever being potentially subject to theft by other players, down to avoiding the online game altogether and only playing offline if needed. (Incidentally, I will never, ever, steal from another player, nor loot another player. It would make me feel as bad as if I was stealing something in the real world.)
- Balance: it's a *****. My guess is that many players enjoyed thieving because it was the fastest way to amass riches — but that really shouldn't be the case. Thieving needs to be balanced with other progression paths so that thieves don't pull ahead of adventurers, merchants, etc. If thieving is introduced, be it in both PvP and PvE or else only in PvE, it needs to be made a viable progression path but not one that will attract players due to being faster than the alternatives. The players playing thieves should be the ones that enjoy the play style, not the ones that merely want the fastest way to gain riches.
Yes, I think that would be awesome to have the stealing skill,but they need to have a blessed system or newbie system to where u can't steal some items that are really valuable.
I would be fine with stealing from other players as long as I can call the guards or attack the thief once the deed is done.
Having a very hard time seeing any upside to this. If you had a theoretical game where everyone is a thief, then I get it.
SotA is loosely based on games which didn't even have thieves and picking something up off the ground is considered stealing.
So then you've got some small percentage of the player base who 1) sees themselves as a thief like character and 2) is seeking toxic play, and you want to implement a feature for them which hurts the game for all other players.
Wonderful. Have a stealing skill.
Steal from anyone that's flagged for PvP.
Have at, with my blessing.
Subterfuge skills are great. The problem is the mechanics historically are not.
Max skill pickpocket vs a player has what % chance at success.
What mechanic is used to take this action and is there a mechanic for defending against it.
Is there a skill to defend against pickpocketing: Max skill pickpocket vs max skill pickpocket defense has what % chance at success (ambiguous).
(lots more on the list, shorted to avoid wall of text)
I have some interesting suggestions on the mechanics but I don't see the need for them at this point. As some would like to point out, in PvP, anti - pickpocket skill is kill them if you think they are attempting.
The Time Lord supports and embraces all the forms of TvP, KvP, PvP and...ummm...what's that other one called when I'm RPing a Oscar Myer... Oh ya PvE.
I'm not sure that it can make it into Public Release #1 "But I'm truly hoping for bank robbery, stage coach robbery and an LB Crown Jewel Robbery!"
These haven't been in the news here or in development that I know of yet, but I'm sure the heart for these is there "And Here!"
I also hope to steal a few hearts along the Ultima way...
Ultima's Time Lord is Well Famed for Kidnaping...
So why should anyone expect any different?
"Rouge to the Bone!"
Oh and, while we're on the subject of theft... "another thing"...
*draws another deep breath and launches another one of his famed incoherent rants chucked full of run-on sentences*hic*
I would like to see NPC Bars and Taverns declared "Free Theft Zones" ... we have to accommodate theft somewhere just as in other danger zones there will be for PK/PvP, it may as well be placed in the most seedy place in town. "Risk vs Reward", our Pubs are somewhat of a central place where all good secret information first begins.
And also.... while you're in the Pub, "I want to also steal your horse outside" It's nothing personal, but being a horse thief is only the beginning of a long road down a very seedy path. You can have someone watch your horse for you, or pay a very expensive young kid, or stableman to ether watch over or stable your ride in the valet parking garage ... but ether way, a bar is a bar in Ultima as much as in real life, so you should have to take proper precautions. I know that whenever I go to any bar here in Thailand or anywhere in the world, I place just enough $ in my wallet which is then kept in my front pocket, I take a Taxi cab there, or pay the premium for the valet parking... and so... so should we here.
I don't want any whining about it, there's no need for heroes without villains... so belly up to the bar and help support our vibrant dangerous community members...
Or we won't be give any of your stuff back We're watching you here and we know who you are ...
So you can now help do our duty to New Britannia and support these proposals...
I am all for stealing as long as I have the right to subdue (attack) the person stealing from me when they do so that I might reclaim my items and maybe some extra for my effort.
I played Atlantic from 1998-2003 before going to a server not run by EA with a pre-Age Of Shadows design (The Golden Age). I never saw people running around Felluca naked constantly, not sure where you got that. I'm also not sure what you mean by you were only able to steal something petty either. I often grabbed heavy magic war hammers, sometimes after a few tries but that was the fun part. That was even on OSI before leaving, so that's simply false. I never encountered this issue of 'worthless items' even with the sad implementation of Trammel as well. There were still plenty of items to be relocated to my bank box (Vanquishing, Power, Force weapons or above mostly) and a borrowed goods paid for custom hide out 'The Panic Room', a place of epic stories from me and my friends great memories of UO.
*I think we're doing that mirror thought process again Sir Ravenclaw *
Good Point!... now lets look at the ramifications on any Kama issues this may bring up;
"What Actions Will We Take and How Will That effect our Karma?"
a) Kill him, loot him and turn his body over to the authorities,
b) Kill him and loot him,
c) Kill him and turn him into the authorities,
d) kill him and leave him on the floor,
e) Subdue him, loot him and turn him subdued over to the authorities,
f) Subdue him and turn him into the authorities,
g) Subdue him, and loot him,
h) Subdue him and leave him on the floor,
i) Only put bad karma
j) Do nothing at all...
*did I miss any?*
Then each of these choices, could effect our fame, karma and or our reputation...
You forgot "Take their head as a trophy".. ;-)
Kill his family in front of him, then kill him ? :/
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