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Suggestions on what to do with Last Names - Prompted by Telethon

Discussion in 'Release 29 Feedback Forum' started by CrazyPhil, May 3, 2016.

  1. Selene

    Selene Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Here's the problem with "current system works -- do nothing." I know the Founder Last name reward might not seem like much:

    Last Name
    Get your last name early! Experience in battle leads to Notoriety, but unlike ordinary adventurers, Immortal Adventurers will have the right to select and display both a first and last name right from the get-go!


    But, this is an Immortal Founder pledge reward, which means it effects the VAST MAJORITY of Founder and Royal Founders and A LOT of the largest backers. If you start saying some pledge rewards matter, and some do not, who decides which ones don't matter? If you allow this one to slide, are you opening up for other pledge rewards (some that people have strongly defended, like lot claiming order, for example) to be changed to suit the whims of the masses?

    It might be easy to say "I don't care about this." But then what happens when someone doesn't care about a pledge reward/ Portalarium promise that you find vital?

    I can only think of three solutions (please, someone add any others you can think of) that allow for last named to be selected and displayed later without a bunch of people running around with the same name.

    • Make first names unique to one character
      • Pro: No confusion in naming, combined with a quest for a last name it allows players to keep a single name by skipping the quest (Cher and Madonna would approve)
      • Con: Very restrictive on naming, effects players that currently have the same first name
    • Require a Last Name Entered at Character Creation Visible for all Players Above a Certain Level/Once completing the tutorial scene
      • Pro: Support's Lord British's desire for characters to be united/known by a last name on a single account, supports current naming methods with first/last name combination being unique or would allow for family name to be unique to a single account, allows more naming options for players
      • Con: Forces players who would not like a visible last name to select one and wear it
    • Require a Last Name Entered at Character Creation for all Players Visible when inspected but can be toggled off overhead
      • Pro: Allows for current naming method and a single last name for all characters on an account, allows for characters to be KNOWN by a single name but still allows others to access family name
      • Con: More work coding to create a toggle last name on/off, requires all characters to select a last name, requires players to inspect a character to know "for sure" who they are dealing with

    Personally, I think the third option is the most flexible, but I'd love to hear other ideas about how to implement this pledge reward.
     
  2. Xi_

    Xi_ Avatar

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    perhaps instead of a last name it could be a clan name or something, for example, you could have a character named Selene Noctua of the McPickle clan and another character named bo Jangles of the McPickle clan but I could not be Moonshadow of the McPickle clan.

    never miss an oppurtunity to say McPickle!
     
  3. EmberFlame

    EmberFlame Avatar

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    Want to start by commenting on @SeleneNoctua and the "Founder Last Name".

    You present a great argument, and I don't necessarily disagree with it. That said, SotA appears to encourage more storytelling/RP than most MMOs today, and as such, should find means to allow it at every opportunity. Last names are HUGE in most medieval/fantasy settings, and those without them are often seen as peasantry or social pariahs to some lesser or greater degree. It strikes me as silly that we as 'almighty' Avatars would be denied the ability to carry our family name/personal titles/badges of infamy with us into New Britannia, especially when we're already given the option to acquire other titles to publicly display.

    I'll admit to being biased; I came into the game when Benefactor pledges were the only option, and I won't quit if they choose to honor a previous promise. However, while I'll always be Jakdaw Foxlauden, I will be greatly discouraged from force-feeding you all my name in chat, especially when most people (note: Non-RPers) won't bother to remember it even then. In short, it would disappoint me. :(

    ------------

    My semi-personal issues aside, I'm OK with the system as it is. However, IF people feel a change is necessary, I feel that Selene has put forth the best idea I've heard thus far:


    I think this would work out best in the long-haul. As a bonus, you could make the "inspection" part listed in the Cons a part of the experience! I know some backers in the past have discussed a feature that would allow us to discover Player Names as we do NPC names. Perhaps this could be a possible means to provide that?
     
  4. Selene

    Selene Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    The reward just says that only Founders get to select AND display their last name when they start the game. That doesn't mean that benefactors and others can't select a last name (maybe even at character creation and lock it in), it just means they might have to do a quest or reach a certain level to display it. In Everquest, I think you had to be level 10 or 20to display your surname on your character. Maybe it could even the first quest you do before leaving the starter scene that allows you to display it.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  5. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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    Anybody stop me if they don't agree; but I think the spirit of the Immortal Adventurer pledge reward was simply that they got the ability to have a last name before anybody else. So, simply allowing people who are Immortal Adventurers to pre-register a last name would fulfill the spirit. The rest of the wording about "gaining Notoriety" and so on was just how they imagined the game would work.

    At any rate, I think unique first names is a awful idea... but I was never one for thinking that names really had to be unique at all. So if they want to stick with the idea of "gaining Notoriety" and so on, just find a way to address whispers that doesn't require unique names. So my account is "redfish." If I wanted to take Spoon's name, people might have to whisper "Spoon@redfish" until I got a last name (or was able to decide I didn't want one -- although I think you should be able to hide last names anyway) and there would be a way to fully ID someone in case they were griefing. Not entirely immersive, of course. But whispering to someone on the other side of the map isn't quite immersive, either. How do you break immersion when talking about a chat style /w command?

    If they did want to create some sense of immersion they could always use an idea I threw out there at one time for player-to-player teleport. I suggested that in order to teleport to someone, the two of you would have to exchange a pair of "friendship crystals." I based that on real world lore about gemstones, in how there being male and female counterparts to a stone and legends of the fire stones, where when the two parts were brought together, they'd ignite (see for example here). They could start by requiring exchanging some type of token like that in order to whisper to someone, or simply require you to exchange friends information in person in the game through a two-way interaction with the UI, rather than being able to do it with a /friend switch. Then, after you had someone on your Friends list, /w would allow you to select from your Friends name. This, would, of course, would be a new system and create some more work for the devs to get it done before final wipe.
     
  6. Xi_

    Xi_ Avatar

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    I like alot of your ideas redfish but that is not one of them lol, for one i really don't want any system that forces a user to take a last name, why? because Conan didn't!

    "the name's ya got are the names ya got" -Darkstarr
     
  7. EmberFlame

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    Pretty sure Conan's last name in SotA would be "TheBarbarian". Just sayin'. :p
     
  8. Black Tortoise

    Black Tortoise Avatar

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    I vote for "leave it as is, dont change things in regards to names, everyone's name is preserved as of now or they can change on R32".

    I absolutely vote no for unique first names.

    I do vote for regex matching tab completion for the "/w" command, which should be trivial for the dev team to implement (once they hit a console makeover phase sometime in the future). Similar string matching can be used for NPC conversations or anything else where you have to type the same "string of words with spaces" often. So if someone's name right now is "Wiggle McPickle" I should be able to type "/w Wigg<TAB KEY>" and it automatically updates to "/w Wiggle McPickle," for me.

    The arguments about the pledge rewards aspect are borederline hysterical. Its not the first time some pledge / kickstarter rewards were axed due to changes in game direction, development, and/or technology. This is an acceptable compromise when building a complex and always-evolving product. Its also not that big of a reward. Should the systems even be implemented such as to make the last name reward logical, its something that only matters for the beginning of your play experience (which we hope to be really long). It doesnt compare at all to lasting, more "tangible" rewards like tax free lot deeds, unique/rare items, bank slots, etc.

    Over 3 years of development, and Id say Port deserves some praise for maintaining the kickstarter/pledge rewards (keep in mind perfection is pretty much impossible in this sort of product dev). If its just rewards as trivial as this that get axed along the way, thats some A quality performance. Its not like theyre some kind of meisers just looking for ways to deny people the cookies they were tempted, theyre quite passionate about delivering a product that you will enjoy for years to come. Your rewards wont be left out without careful and lengthy deliberation, and Id sleep peacefully knowing this will be a rare occurrence.

    Unique "first" names FTL. Forcing players into some meaningless pattern of "FName LName" is ethnocentric and banal. Some of our names are concepts as a whole, have their own meaning, and arent just ID tags like "Joe Schmoe". Id like names to maintain uniqueness of names through a single space delineated string, just as they are right now.

    It was actually "Conan the Cimmerian" in Howard's series (until he gained enough notoriety to have more bad*ss titles).

    [​IMG]
     
  9. SmokerKGB

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    I beleive in "Family" being important, so a Last name should be required and unique, and carry your history with it... All your chr should share this last name, and first names should be irrelevant, as you can delete that chr and start a new. Your Family wealth & property can be passed down to your other chrs, so this makes perfect sense...
     
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  10. Xi_

    Xi_ Avatar

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    I must admit, i find it quite disconcerting to see so many willing to force others to name there characters a certain way.
     
  11. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    :eek:~Oh So Long Ago... "We Thought" We Had an Agreement and a Goal~o_O
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/heraldry.3491/
    :rolleyes: Where did all those hopes and talks go, that were so vital in this initial subject's broaching? (2013)

    [​IMG]

    Our last names were suppose to belong to us, or so we were lead to believe, or perhaps were just misunderstood to have caused such thoughts of "Our SOTA Family Heraldry" o_O
    :oops:"Our Family Heraldry Died Somewhere"... :(
    [​IMG]
    Our last names were thought to be unique to us back then...
    But that's why we have Time Lords, to remember things like that... ;)!'

    Things always get strangely played around with in the year of the Monkey o_O
    ~Time Lord~:(
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  12. Rhiannon

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    I heard exactly the opposite - they weren't planning to wipe social (names, friends,etc). I'll have to go listen to it again.
     
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  13. CrazyPhil

    CrazyPhil Bug Brigade – Bug Hunter

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    I actually think this would be really unique and cool. Allow First Names to be optional. Your Family Name is what you send whispers to or add to your Friend's List. The Friend's List seems to be account-bound anyways, rather than character-bound like other games (when folks delete their characters, the new ones that are created in their places appear on the list automatically).

    Eligible backers would just get first choice of character names (aka Family Names). Name-selection roll-out anyone? ;)

    Edit: You'd just need a way to determine which character it is during Character Select if you have multiple slots on your account. First Names would become one of the ways of separating them, but they wouldn't have to be unique. Have 3 Steve Peppers if you want! Have 3 Peppers! It would be allowed with this example, but nobody else could be simply "Pepper".
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  14. Duke Aventine

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    This made me laugh out loud, thanks. I could see that making for some interesting spoofs and role playing.

    Though indeed prone to foul play as you said.
     
  15. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    This makes the most sense to me, out of all the posts in this thread. The ability to choose and display last names at character creation is the founder reward. Others will only pick first names at character creation, and won't be able to get a 'unique' last name until fulfilling an in-game quest.
    This means whispers and friend lists will need to use an ID# or something to distinguish between people who might share the same name, or you might just have to have them targeted in-game.
    (Alternatively, the ability to display a first name along with your unique last name will be the founder reward, and non-founders will instead start with a unique last name at character creation with no first names).
     
  16. Shadow

    Shadow Avatar

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    There is a lot of good points in the thread, so I can just jump strait into my own biased opinion. If I were to distill my preferences, it would be at least one or the other (first or last) to be unique. Identity to me it the most prized possession in the game, and I have stopped playing and supporting games that have taken my name (after having already acquired it) due to server merges and the like. Having the ability to then bestow my coat of arms, or adopt others to grant permission to use my unique last name would be acceptable but currently, it's not unique at all. Something has to be unique in game, out side of our account name. The current combination of both doesn't appeal to me one bit and doesn't seem to add anything to the rewards. Why not just have a single name and allow as many spaces as you want if it's not unique, you could be Bob the Builder, Conan the Barbarian, or Jack the Ripper, etc. I'd rather not see Bob TheBuilder in any case.

    If last names are not unique, then I will forgo having a last name. That is an absolute for me, because the last name has no significance whatsoever. Not having a last name, is the only method by which your first name can be unique (in a way). Theoretically, if there wasn't a reward for having a last name early, everyone would have by default a unique first name. This will show up on crafted items, and I would rather not add any variables that could lead to confusion with other characters with the same name.

    I changed my name to test how the naming worked, because there was absolutely no documentation. No documentation on how the mentioned notoriety was going to work, and only DLMB discussions on not wanting people to hide behind anonymity or other characters. To make an informed decision, I have to know what the mechanics are and how they affect me. I got a second account and started testing different combinations becuase it seemed we were headed to unique last names and that is a drastic change from my first name only. Of course, testing resulted in my identity being taken. We're still in testing, right? Nope, that's persistent already which was not what I expected.

    When there were wipes, it didn't preserve my name, so I wrongly assumed it wouldn't be till after final wipe that we could select our name. When everyone is aware there is a final wipe, you can plan for it. There was no announcement of social final wipe that I was aware of until after the fact, and even then social wipe isn't an industry term. I didn't see specific release notes that said this coming up wipe your name will be persistent, so don't change it if you have what you want. Friends lists are often account bound, character names are not (especial when there is talk of multiple characters on an account). If our names were reserved, why didn't it auto populate my character with my name and/or appearance at every wipe? No indication my name was being preserved for me, because that would have been a red flag that changing my name would be bad.

    If you were testing different locations, biomes, lot sizes, how happy would you be ff you suddenly found out that the last test lot selection sequence was final, and they are preserving your location selection. How does the notoriety mentioned actually work? How do coat of arms apply to our characters and our account? So many unanswered questions.
     
  17. Rhiannon

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    What makes sense to me is that your name, either first name only or first and last name be unique. In other words, there can only be one person named "Rhiannon" who has no last name. There might be a "Rhiannon Telemar" or "Rhiannon Darkshadow". And there would only be one "Rhiannon Telemar".

    Does my thought make sense? Your entire name, whatever it is, should be unique.
     
  18. Shadow

    Shadow Avatar

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    No last name value being null is still counted as a value by which uniqueness is calculated. So you're stating Last name only as a unique variable. First name could be common only if they could select a last name at character creation, otherwise, a common first name couldn't be selected.
     
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  19. Leostorm

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    what about middle names though...
     
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  20. Lars vonDrachental

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    Names have to be unique to be used ingame. E.g. to whisper, sending a letter,… there is no possibility to have multiple persons with the same name and using such mechanics.

    To not "confuse" people during character creation I would suggest, that on creating an avatar you are just able to choose a first name (by default you get a “blank” last name) with a hint that you can choose a last name ingame.
    The combination of first and last name is always the unique identifier for ingame purpose...so all first names in the standard “blank”-family have to be unique. E.g. just one “John” would be possible.

    In e.g. Bittany is now some kind of registration office where you can change your name and add e.g. a last name to it. If you have pledged high enough you can change your name one time for free and everyone else has to pay e.g. 25000 gold. Maybe for free usage is an ingame item needed or during the first month just pledgers can interact with the NPCs or ...
    By choosing a last name this last name is getting bound to your account. You are now the "leader" of this family and no other avatar is able to choose the same last name.
    At the same time there can be now a John, John Bloodbath or a John Silverwood. A second "John Silverwood" or "Jon Silverwood" wouldn't be possible.

    As an additional “feature” you are maybe able to invite people into you family to share your last name with them. (E.g. John Silverwood, Peter Silverwood,...)
    Additional character slots can but do not have to share the same last name. But as the last name is account bound you can choose just one for all your characters and if a second character "needs" a different last name you could join another family.
     
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