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Taming Collars should be tiered

Discussion in 'Release 22 Feedback' started by Link_of_Hyrule, Oct 10, 2015.

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  1. Link_of_Hyrule

    Link_of_Hyrule Avatar

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    Right now it's pretty difficult for non-crafters to tame because there aren't any NPC vendors that sell taming collars or whistles this creates a problem because most player vendors that do sell them are selling them for ridiculous prices like 10k gold or more. When it takes a lot of collars to even tame one monster especially at lower levels it's too expensive to level the skill enough for it to be useful. I used 6 collars on a wolf and still wasn't able to tame it luckily I was able to have a friend craft me a few collars but had I bought them it would have been like 60k gold and I wasn't even able to tame the wolf! Gold is still pretty hard to make in the game imo so I'm hoping next release will be better for taming. I think that player crafted items should be where the best items are but at this point players are just abusing the system to sell items for values way above what they should be priced at. When there are like unique collars to say tame a dragon I could see why that would be worth 10k gold but a regular one to tame a common creature like a wolf should be like 350 gold max.

    Please note I'm saying this only for the BASIC collar when the economy is actually in and there are advanced collars for individual monsters they should be increasingly more expensive and difficult to obtain and craft. But there should be control of the base price of the item so that the system can be effectively tested by the players which right now it can't be.

    As an example of possible tiers:
    Note: I'm only listing collars but there would be corresponding whistles most likely. Also possibly non-combat versions for cheaper.

    Basic Taming Collar (non-combat version obtainable at npc)
    - 150-250 Gold
    (Rabbits, Chickens, Cats, Dogs, and other Small harmless creatures mostly useless in combat)
    Imbued with lavender it smells good and animals are relaxed by it. The player crafted version would be better because it has added bonuses such as higher taming chance or certain creatures or faster taming.
    Feline collar - 250-450
    (Larger cats and feline type animals)
    Made with mystical wild catnip
    Low level canine collar - 350-450
    (Small wolves, large dogs, desert wolves, coyotes)
    Made with pheromones from wolves.
    High level canin collar - 450-600
    (Large wolves, Large desert wolves, Large coyotes, Obsidian Wolves, Arctic Wolves)
    Made with pheromones from Obsidian wolves.
    Live stock taming collar - 500-650
    (Cows, Regular Horses, Sheep, Goats, and other farm type animals)
    Made with lavender and apple fragrance because what farm animal doesn't like apples?
    Low level bear collar - 600 - 650
    (Small Bear or Baby Bear)
    Made with pheromones from a small bear.
    High level bear collar - 650-700
    (Large Bear, Giant Bear, Obsidian Bear)
    Made with pheromones from an Obsidian bear.
    Corpian collar - 1000 - 1500
    (Are there different size Corpians?)
    Made from a secretions of a Corpian's poison glands.
    Willow wisp taming jar - 1,500 - 2,000
    (Because a collar doesn't make sense)
    Made with magical pixie dust.
    Nightmare or Flame Horse Collar - 9,000 - 15,000
    (These aren't in-game but yeah)
    Made with pheromones of a Nightmare or Flame Horse.
    Dragon Collar- 10,000 to 1,000,000?
    (depending on variant and size of dragon)
    Made with dragon pheromones as well as dragon scales encrusted with diamonds since dragon's like shiny things.

    There would be a lot more in between tiers but this is just a basic example.

    EDIT: So I was thinking it doesn't make a a lot of sense for the collars to be made with silver. I feel like instead they should be imbued with like animal pheromones or something that will actually attract the animal and be submissive to your will. Maybe for the Dragon Collar for example you need dragon scales or some other part of a dragon that smells like a dragon. I added a few examples above.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
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  2. Edward Newgate

    Edward Newgate Avatar

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    One of the main features and design philosophy of shroud is a player driven economy.
    What you suggest would destroy the idea of an player driven economy.
     
  3. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    Nope deal with it if you want to try taming find players who can help you out. No need to give any more to the players.

    They should really STOP putting stuff in the game.

    I know this could be taken hypocritically but I feel players need to start to realize how the game will be when launched and start to learn how to PLAY the game and not get fed stuff.


    Start us with Nothing, make us earn our way like we are supposed to and perhaps after a few weeks then possibly help out players with testing stuff if the need exists.

    The only thing that makes sense is specialized collars costing ALOT more in specialized resources - A dragon taming collar should use up Silver / Gold / Obs Gem / Hardened Leather / Fustian Threads and maybe even Diamonds.

    Make us start PLAYING the game - (I know Hypocrite) :)
     
  4. Zassik Dreadmort

    Zassik Dreadmort Avatar

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    As long as taming is about as accessible as the summoning spells in the other trees then it should be okay.
     
  5. Link_of_Hyrule

    Link_of_Hyrule Avatar

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    This wouldn't "Destroy" anything except people that are abusing the system by selling supplies for 1,000+ times their value. So yes it would crash the current taming collar market that a couple people have tried to make a quick buck off of. In-order for the devs to have some sort of control over the market there should be a control item at an NPC to prevent players from abusing the system.


    This game is Pre-Alpha there is no economy I can't effectively test something if I can't get the supplies to do it. Thinking that people selling an item that is marked as being worth 20 gold for 10k Gold is ludicrous. When the economy is in and everything is balanced theses kind of responses would make more sense at this point people are just abusing an open system. There needs to be some sort of control in the price of basic items so players can easily obtain them to test basic systems. As I clearly said in the op I understand it's a player driven economy and I agree once there are specialized collars in for individual creatures that as the creatures scale up supply prices should as well but it's unreasonable to think it should cost 100k to take one wolf especially when you're already spending so much time doing the attacking and taming. There should be tiers of taming collars for increasingly harder monsters right now there is only one basic collar which should be cheap and affordable from an npc like every other crafting supply. EDIT: I edited my OP to reflect my idea of how the tiers should work. I'm all for a player economy but I'm not for $22 dollar aids drugs being bought out by a new CEO and sold for $700.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
  6. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    The problem with your ideas, players are going to get used to having more for nothing and will just get extremely pissed when the game launches, they need to start weening us off NOW.

    If you want taming collars fine me in game I can help you out. Then you can test what ever you want .
     
  7. Link_of_Hyrule

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    It's really not unreasonable to think it's normal for a vendor to have the cheapest possible taming collar being sold for cheap. If we are really going by this line of thinking we should remove all crafting materials from NPC vendors completely along with every other basic type or armor and weapon. The issue is mostly a balance issue with how hard it is to craft basic taming collars and also how hard it is to buy them from players for affordable prices but all of these things will be correct before launch obviously. Everyone I talk to in the IRC agrees with my taming is currently too expensive the way that it is.
     
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  8. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I see how here you are coming from, but it does negatively impact the economy. Right now, the resources for taming supplies are time consuming to gather and crafting in onerous. I expect this to change before release' likely with multiple tiers of collars/whistles instead of just one, which would greatly aid the lower tier tamers. I think noncombat collars should be available as well, with ones designed to create noncombat pets being much cheaper/easier to make.
     
  9. Andreaus Whitefyre

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    No, I agree. Taming collars should be on vendors. Some of use want to fight and tame and not gave to make them, or find someone to make them when that someone charges exorbitant prices.
     
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  10. Link_of_Hyrule

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    Yeah having a non-combat taming collar would be useful to just have pets or help train taming.
     
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  11. Numa

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    I agree with the OP, the basic taming collar should be available at the NPC store. All the other skill/magic tree's first tier talents have minimal or no casting/usage requirements - why should the Taming tree be any different ? The more advanced collars should be harder to make or get , that's the rule too for other stuff.
     
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  12. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Demand and supply.
    Go and buy one. Don't like the price? Build one yourself.
     
  13. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    I want to rephrase my statement.
    It dosen't deliver my point.
    Imo your request should be to make the collars easier to produce.
    Producing this collars in great numbers is a pain in the a....
    When the collars+whistle came out i was like "ah lets see what i can earn with that". After i looked at the list for the materials i was like "nah. will never be able to make a margin with that."
    Obviously i was wrong with that.

    I still have one big problem with that topic: everybody and his dog has combat pets now.
    I mean what the hell? Really? Everybody? I don't want to have a combat pet! But with the system as it is i am almost forced to get one myself.
     
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  14. Link_of_Hyrule

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    I think that both items are true they should be easier to produce and have a base item sold at an NPC. I decided to try and make a collar myself last night and found it was pretty much impossible with my current skills. I was in Owl's Nest mining for hours and got one metal ore. I edited my OP with alternative ingredients for collars that make more sense IMO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
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  15. Quenton

    Quenton Avatar

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    Supplies for taming should be re-evaluated.

    Do tamers really need them? "I always wanted a wolf like you" was an ENORMOUS appeal of taming in UO. The fact that you could just go up to an animal and try to tame it based on your skill was amazing.

    Wouldn't it be better to use things like collars to give bonuses/benefits during/after taming? Then the issue of having to buy suppliers at vendors becomes moot. Get them only if you want to be better at your craft, rather than a pre-requisite.
     
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  16. Sold and gone

    Sold and gone Avatar

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    Playing the devils advocate here, but I think part of the reason why it is hard is so that not every single player has a tamed animal. It should be difficult and be tedious. It then will be a great reward when accomplished. It will make people stop just taming animals just to lose in combat. You will need to pick and choose your battles with your pet so it does not die, or you will have to repeat the tedious process again. On the other hand, during testing in pre alpha, it should be easier to accomplish for testing reasons.
     
  17. Link_of_Hyrule

    Link_of_Hyrule Avatar

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    I renamed the thread to fit the scope of it better because I feel having tiered levels of difficulty for taming supplies is more important than just selling them at an NPC. The main reason I started this thread was just getting started with taming at all is difficult unless you want to spend thousands of gold on the basic taming collars that exist in the game currently. I believe that the best items should be crafted and made by the players but that everyone should be able to get the very minimum materials to get started with a skill. So maybe only the very lowest non-combat pet taming collar for a rabbit or cat would be sold but all the rest will be only crafted by players and they will require hard to gather items such as the ones I listed in the new version of the OP. A player crafted version of the very basic item would even be better because it would have a random chance of higher taming or faster taming various things like that that would make you want to buy it from a player rather than an NPC.
     
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  18. Numa

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    Also remember that much of the feedback on taming being generated now is from long time members who know where the needed resources are, how to get them and how to generate the gold quickly to make the collars. How difficult it is for a new player to do it isn't clear. And unless the Taming tree is intended for a select few with the knowledge and resources to get them - the barrier to getting the BASIC taming collar should lowered. My 2 cents :)
     
  19. Link_of_Hyrule

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    I've been playing this game since day one and I'm having problems with it lol. But I also am not a crafter in general I'm a mage and most recently musician and fisher lol. I'm hoping to get back into crafting more once it's expanded out more and it's balanced more but I really only want to do cooking and alchemy not a ton of the other stuff. As it currently stands to be a tamer I have to also be a miner, alchemist, smelter, and tailor.
     
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  20. Numa

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    Same here , my primary intended avatar role is a ranger type which means leatherworking, carpentry and a bit of herbal alchemy. The rest I'd rather buy from NPC vendors and/or player run NPC vendors. The two are needed because the NPC vendors will control price gouging on what should be basic stuff and the Player run vendors will supply high quality pricey stuff which regular vendors don't carry.
     
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