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The boats from Hidden Vale to Novia need tolls.

Discussion in 'Release 26 Feedback Forum' started by Grave Dragon, Feb 22, 2016.

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  1. Grave Dragon

    Grave Dragon Avatar

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    +1 Excellent point, stowage rates based on weight will likely be more appropriate long term and are probably not that much more difficult to implement.
     
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  2. Grave Dragon

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    There is no instant teleport travel option in real life.

    Enough said.
     
  3. Phydra

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    Hardly; the economic themes are relevant to the matter, particularly in that having economics insight to what can or cannot be seen to work in the real world is helpful when attempting to determine how (or if) to implement strictures in mechanics.
     
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  4. Grave Dragon

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    Youre missing the point. Physical transport is mandated by basic physics in the real world so the restriction of instant transport is not a factor when deliberating economic trend based upon transport of goods.

    Besides, this was adaquately responded to when RG stated back in early prealpha that we'd have control points.
     
  5. Phydra

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    I disagree on both counts; the reality of economics rests in human behaviors and thus, insight is helpful when considering how/when/if additional control points are needed (also in pointing out that they should keep an eye on those control points after final wipe; my hypothesis is that they will eventually have to move them in the face of player complaint.... but we'll see.).
     
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  6. Noric

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    Although true, there are many limitations. For example, the existence of a single common currency and universal (and mostly nonexistent) monetary policy aren't like the real world. Also there is the consideration the that outside of PRTs the tax bases don't matter (Which reduces the geographical incentive to have people making money in your region.
     
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  7. Grave Dragon

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    And the human behavior is clear since the public vendor in owls head is constantly at its maximum and any other public vendor in the game is lucky to have a half dozen items on a good day.
     
  8. Phydra

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    Sorry to see the interest in argument; I'm here to contribute my opinion. I've now done so. /tips hat and departs the thread
     
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  9. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    That's a wrong assumption.

    What if Perennial Coast and Hidden Vale are by design the same economic region?

    When Novia was not even ingame, the rifts were used to move to the various isolated zones, and the lore/quests pointed out that the "mainland" was unreachable from the Vale. It was just a game trick to give us something to do before Novia was done.

    What if soon the Hidden Vale loses its appeal, with a balancing pass?

    My understanding is that HV is just farming grounds while waiting for a more balanced Novia - with all the NPC cities, resource separation, control points in place (we still miss a good bunch of them), etc.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if, once Novia is ready, Hidden Vale would rapidly decline in popularity, if it's devoid of trainers, of easy and generous starting quests, of ultra-cheap vendors (think deed/house above OH bank), and no more all-levels-covered-in-a-few-adjacent-zones (yes, Ravenswood, I'm looking at you).

    At least, I know that a certain Cary Grant-loving, three-lettered dev would love that we move to Novia for good...
     
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  10. Grave Dragon

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    Possible, but I think highly unlikely. I can only speak for the status quo and as of today both areas can and should in my opinion function as two seperate zones. I feel the likelyhood of HV being redone is slim, if ever, but especially not before episode 2, why would they spend the extra money?

    Granted, none of us, including me, truely know whats in store but as it sits today, the majority of active population in the game resides in those two zones and with Ardoris being known for long runs and longer load times, owls head became the center of commerce for the game.

    A toll or more approptiately (as @Noric pointed out) a stowage rate based on total character weight would encourage more trade in Ardoris and the other Perennial Coast towns, equalizing the existing monopoly in Owls Head.


    I think hidden Vale is too all-inclusive and too convienent to decline in popularity to the extent that you're expressing as a possibility. Plus, with the lack of row lots, also pointed out by @Noric, it's not an area that will be resided within by lower pledge non-alpha players and therefore a more likely candidate for higher density, higher pledge player living.

    Hidden Vale and the mainland it's connected too 'individually' each have more player capacity, adventuring zones, quests, npcs, scene uniquity and points of interest than any other region in the game.

    Heck, as of R27, the outlying regions will have cloned scenes, so that should tell you it's going to be a while before the rest of Novia catches up.

    Folks may argue this is simply due to the order in which content was released and I would tend to agree, but it's still a gross living advantage to any other area in the game and it needs to be balanced.

    I think Portalarium would likely agree with me that this is the absolute minimum that they could and should do to start that balancing process, completing it will require the unique scenes, regional storylines, more npcs, and all the other wonderful things I listed that HV and PC already contain.

    For me it's not a question of if they should be seperated, but why they haven't been already.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
  11. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Code:
    UPDATE town_prices SET price = price * 3 WHERE city = 'owl\'s head';
    
    Problem solved.
     
  12. Grave Dragon

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    I sincerely must be having a hamster wheel brain moment here because im not seeing how this addresses my concerns?
     
  13. Satan Himself

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    Wouldn't mind a small toll for the boat as a gold sink and I guess realism purposes. Adding a control point type thing with respect to the boats, please (insert deity) NO.
     
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  14. Curt

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    Make the ships trireme or something like that.
    you get free passage at the price of rowing.
     
  15. Grave Dragon

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    1500 gold is what I'm requesting as that is the same fee to bypass a control point between any other zones.
     
  16. agra

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    No thanks. I'd rather no toll than that absurd number. If it was 15 gold? everyone would pay it. If it was 150 gold, many would pay it, for all control points. But 1500? Might as well say "Here's a gold sink we don't want you to use, please drive through".

    And overall, on this entire subject? I want a free teleport to HV, because it's the only way anyone will ever go between there and Novia, after July 28th, 2016.
    I don't want my entertainment to be a job, and I don't want to be punished with currency gates to reach residential areas and starting areas. I want it to be fun. Being able to afford to go to HV only after I'm level 50? Nope. Don't like it. Don't like this idea at all.
     
  17. Alexander

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    The only problem with this line of thinking is that if you apply a fee for boat travel to/from the Hidden Vale, then you must also apply a fee
    for boat travel to/from all other points that require boat travel. ie. Elysium, Norgard, all of the small islands scattered around Novia.
    Considering that Port intends to remove the fee for quick travel in the control points, I am opposed to paying a fee for the Hidden Vale.
    There must be another option.
     
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  18. agra

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    Agreed. Leave it as it is. Not broken. Do not fix. :) (IMHO)
     
  19. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    If everything in Owl's Head costs thrice as much as of now, the convenience of Hidden Vale would be vastly diminished. And my solution would realize exactly that: with a single, cheap operation on the database (or a similarly simple set of trivial operations - of course I don't know the schema, but even if the query was more complex, the result would be the same), Hidden Vale's capitol will quickly decline in popularity, and the island become just an appendix of Perennial Coast instead of being elected as standalone region.
     
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  20. Spoon

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    Seems we are talking about different concepts or there is some other misunderstanding here.

    Yes of course all ships should take a fee from their passengers. Some fees should be higher and some should be lower. Like getting smuggled in should cost more.
    Why would a captain take you onboard their vessel as a passenger for free? Why wouldn't a smuggler take a hefty fee? It makes no sense.

    Port does not intend to remove the fee for using the Magician Teleport in control points, so they are not inteding to remove the fee for quick travel within a control point, wherever did you get that from?
     
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