The Combat System....

I hope they radically fix the locked system. Auto attacking with 12 second cool downs isn't a valid alternative to the deck system.

 

So now we are at chest thumping, I could care less about how much you huff and puff about combat.

If I was on the dev team I'd have a stake, then we might have that conversation. The devs are the one's putting the money on the line.

Right here is exactly what I am getting at.

It's not a code "problem" Problem implies they don't know what they are doing. It's a time problem. The first release of combat is very different from the current release. It will be different in beta, it will be different in live.

 

I would have said (and have) that its like driving a car where all your controls (your peddles, your steering wheel, your indicator and wiper sticks, even your radio controls) are all randomly changed from one second to the next so you push the right peddle to go faster 1 second and the next it changes the radio station or makes the car break or turns to the right.

Try driving a car like that and NOT crashing in 10 seconds

 

No actually its US putting our money on the line, and quite a lot of money actually

 

That's the definition of a Kickstarter.

 

There is an argument to be had here. I'll agree it is not easy, and while I support it, I can't say with complete honesty I love it. Only time will tell. I suggest that all nay sayers that have not seriously given it a chance, should first kick themselves in the butt and then decide to beat it. Surely, there is nothing better than a challenge in a game. Only after conquering the challenge should anyone come back and say change it.

That said, I may or may not be a nay sayer, but since I have yet to conquer it. My opinion is in limbo.

This may be needed. But I think the problem with the locked system has more to do with people using it to avoid challenging themselves to the intended system. Only one system is needed. Which system that is remains to be seen. But the number one problem with the random card system is the fact that the locked card system exists. While I am not certain about most things, I would bank on that as a fact.

 

The most constructive idea I have is rip it out, make a new one, even if it increases development time. Whiz-o-decks and restrictive hotbars suck.

The thing that irritates me more than anything is how easily these problems could have been avoided had Port'y engaged the community in any combat system discussion. But they just dropped the bomb and said 'there you go, this is the future'. Well... NOW ITS THE PAST!

This is not a 'Port's not perfect' issue- it is a 'Porty's not listening' issue...

 

Cut the 'chest thumping' diatribe.

 

Ok, this point I agree with because my avatar is a bow & polearm user. Dictating the pace of the fight on open ground is easier when you can kite the mob/player at a distance then close in when you"ve whittled their hitpoints to a manageable level. The combat deck is not much of a bother since you can break off ( I have the % speed boost skill) & wait for a better selection of glyphs to turn up. Having to fight close in (ie. dungeons & caverns) is a problem since the only counter to a bad hand is defense & armor.

I"m still not convinced at this point that scrapping the combat deck system is the answer, my gut feel is that the current system is too complex for fast hand to hand combat and needs to be streamlined to fit that style.

And this is exactly what I mean, make the deck simpler - it has too many components as it is.

 

If they didn't want our feedback, then we wouldn't have early access.

That's how a pledge works. There is a problem, it's noted along multiple media, and it needs addressing. Or they could ignore it and waste precious paying testers. You're suggesting that our input, our testing is naturally less important than what a dev account has to say? Or rather, what people all over the gaming world have to say?

Both. The code doesn't agree with anything RG has talked about in five years of speaking on the state of MMOs and the future of the gaming industry. Ie, the reason many of us backed. It doesn't even make sense when the guy said so himself he would prefer no UI at all. That's not a possibility when you have a random card deck as the bread-and-butter of interaction with the game.

I used a hybrid deck because I could rip stuff to shreds at least three times as fast than with the locked deck. It isn't because I want to challenge myself; it's because if I don't kill through the skeletons and take out the liche fast enough, I'll be in a moebius strip of boring, unimaginative circa-1999 MMO trading blows combat. And I stress, blows. Additionally, if the battle raged on any longer and the mobs didn't kill me, I'd probably kill myself from sheer boredom.

Is that lack of content or AI updates? Maybe, but is there anything slated to even make it better? Has there been any talks about putting other content on hold at any point to make the mobs and the skills far more intriguing than it is? Do we have the time to do so before money and/or interest runs out? And finally, would that even change the terrible experience of using the current card-based system?

I was talking to a fellow dissenter of this system, and he made an interesting observation: this system is Chris's, not Richard's. Why is it the person who waved the banner and drummed up the support, whose reputation damn near made the entire Kickstarter possible on its own, is not having his system or ideals supported by the basic mechanics? Immersion, void of a distracting UI of any kind or completely minimal, is now replaced by a mutant card system requiring constant attention? I don't recall that being a bullet point on any of his interviews or speeches in the last half decade.

We're talking about the greatest minds of the gaming industry, at least 20-30 years ago, and they can't come up with an intuitive, immersive UI and combat experience, based on what has been done along with what they supposedly envision (but can't share openly with us plebs)? Either they refuse to acknowledge this system is significantly controversial to the point that it's going to irreparably damage the longevity of this game by being so detracting and divisive to gameplay and gamer, or they have truly lost their insight into what makes a great game and are out of their element.

I'd like to think they still got it in 'em, but I'm not seeing much to suggest they have a firm grip on this situation. I don't feel like I'm alone in that assessment.

 

I like this idea. What I"d like to do is embed this preparation in a weapon, say my favorite dagger so it goes off when I ambush someone. The downside would be that it will take crafting skills to be able to do this and the aftereffect of it being triggered would be accelerated damage & wear on the weapon used itself. Something very much like a cursed spell.

 

If there is a problem, does that mean the design (designs that may not be available to anyone that is not an employee) or the current R#.

All of the things you keep saying refer to R# states not the intended design. They pointed out something they don't like, they didn't release a solution, doesn't mean they don't have one, or they are not listening for feed back.

They did the same with PvP, they enabled it, now they are slowly adding more. The state of combat changes so the state of PvP changes. Same with gear, zones, every aspect of the game impacts PvP. It's not so obvious with deck combat because we don't see as many changes.

Are you saying that RG is not right there at the design table?

Not sure if you are going for dev+ or developer of the game. I could care less about dev+ member's conversations. But if you think your 1 person's opinion carries more clout than an employee, you are more than welcome to think that, just don't be disappointed when you don't get the response you want.

If the deck combat isn't working for you, so be it. But some people can see where they are going with it and think it's worth sticking with. Only reason I bothered commenting in this thread is the posts stating they should scrap deck combat. That's as likely as changing to a space theme or super hero theme.

 

My gosh!

1. Dewderonomy is not alone, he is one of many
2. Whilst it is unlikely the combat system will change, it is not an impossibility
3. Changing the combat system is not like changing to a space or hero theme. That is a far-fetched comparison

 

agreed. I think about a third of the player base have issues with the combat system.

i think they will have to do something to make it more fun if one don't like the deck part

they are far too invested in the skill trees and skill choices. That will not change.
What could potentially change are how we gain those skills, the UI and the 'deck building' part.

 

Regarding Richard and Chris. It is quite simple, they are a very small team. It would be inefficient if everything went through Richard. So he delegates responsibilities. What Richard is in charge of is story and such.
So one of the things that was delegated to Chris was he combat system, this since it needs to be integrated with the technical infrastructure/backside of their client-server solution to get everyone to play in the same world.

Please note though that although Richard was in favor of no UI, he seems to have warmed to the deck concept considerably and lately been stating that he is definitely in favor of it.

 

Yes but how do you know all of this for sure dude?

 

The point I see is not related to the "deck issue" or skill system or any solution that was implemented to start the alpha. The point is what type of combat I would like to play. At the moment, combat is static; I want to play dynamic. At the moment, combat is mainly restricted to staring at what glyphe is showing up randomly, what is nothing that makes me feel being in combat. I want to be in the "drivers seat" and not restricted to rolling dices each time I want to to something! Make mobs demanding in the sense that I have to react to actions that are unpredictable, change them to little bastards trying everything to bring me down in a way I can't foresee in any aspect. If you can reach these targets via decks or the current skill system etc. - wunderfull!

 

Yep.

 

Paying attention during hangouts? Checking out all dev posts?
Working with software development? Experience from board/RPG tabletop development?

Mostly it's because I've an associative memory, so I can accumulate associated talks into one picture and can from that go back to sources when necessary to refresh memory.
For instance the third is conjecture from Chris metrics posts.
The too invested is the series of posts dating 1.5 years back on their iterations of the skill trees, the designs of their sigils, and interviews they give press. Switching that part is too costly from a soft dev perspective.
But the quarterlies from Starr and the statements in hangouts say that they are trying different things on skill progression and UI.
Etc.


To me it's baffling that so many interpret the message we get from the devs in such a wide variety of ways.

I've gone back several times to check and I've predictably been able to predict what Darkstarr/Chris will say, Richard though I wouldn't even dream of trying to predict he is too much emotion/impulse driven.

 

But there is no intended design. It's all up in the air. This is a basic system in just about every game, as pertinent as whether you double-click, right-click or single click a door to open it, whether you move with WASD or you click and hold or right click to move. How you control the camera angle. It's a basic function of the game and it's the most divisive issue.

People can not care about housing and street names and POTs; even though it's the major focus of the game and pertains to the smallest fraction, it doesn't matter in the long run for most people (check the pledges sold for that info). Crafting, whether it's cool or not, doesn't pertain to everyone, but because anyone can pick up some form of crafting/gathering skill, anyone can dabble in it. Again, it doesn't affect anyone who isn't interested in it, specifically from a single player standpoint.

Combat is universal. Sure, you have the people who will just RP and craft and go visit virtual bars in POTs. That has no relevance on the single player element they're pushing. It has no relevance on the multiplayer element they're pushing for people who want SotA to be more than a virtual etsy on a graphical Yahoo! chat room.

Again, it's not about content, it's about mechanics.

Certainly doesn't feel like it - and feelings are what drives someone to throw money at a game that keeps getting pushed out despite having 6x the Kickstarter funds requested and a combat system that makes these threads appear almost weekly now.

Some people should think about whether or not they want to play Episode 2. This combat system will keep Episode 2 from happening. Those whales who threw thousands at this game aren't going to do it again and continuously fund entire games/expansions out of their own pocket. Many have come out recently and said those very things themselves.