The Stealing / Justice System is Non Immersive

So, walking around Port Graff in the early morning, no one to be found. Not a human in sight. It began to rain. My avatar, constantly criticizing the lack of sense in these Oracle-sheep, these nature-destroyers, these numb-to-reality "civilized" persons, noticed that yet again more food was left unattended in the rainstorm.

Thinking there are fewer crimes worse than taking energy from Nature only to completely waste it, my Avatar decided to pick up a carrot.

Lo and behold, a "Justicar" materializes out of the ether, and does what most "civilized" idiots do - demanded my money.

While typing this out, the "Justicar" vanished and despawned.

Wtf was that?

No one was around to witness my avatar preserving the bounties of Nature from becoming a total waste (something you Oracle-sheep refer to as "stealing" - as though it were yours to begin with!). Not even those harmful, sheep-herding, soul spying, insectoid contraptions the Oracle unleashes upon her minions. Odd that I could slay and skin a sheep with no one caring, but a single carrot?

Truly a bizzare experience. All my avatar can think is how insane you "civilized" folk really are!

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So yeah, outside of the RP context, the whole "Justicar" thing is silly. Firstly, I should be able to slay this idiot "Justicar" for daring to accuse me of any wrongdoing. Secondly, how the heck did he materialize out of nothing? Thirdly, NO ONE witnessed what I did, how in the heck am I supposed to RP a stealther? . Threevely, I insulted and challenged this poor excuse for a rent-a-cop, and he repeated his blather about truth and had no intelligible response.

Can this be made more immersive?

Can there be a requirement that someone actually witness any "crime" ?

Can there be dynamic dialogue that responds to me when I challenge their accusation? Even if its keyword scripted.

Can I have a chance to resist? When doing so, can several more guards come peruse me, so this isnt some pulp comic style situation where the Guard is superman? Id like to have to fight off a pack of guards, even if I lose.

The whole "superman materializes out of nothing, right exactly where youre standing, and preaches to you, and vanishes" is the start of a greater system, Im sure. Right now its impossible to RP through these events. I also see no actual penalty associated with my action (personally, being at odds with the Oracle's version of truth is a great thing for my avatar, so for me its a reward if my truth rating goes down).

If I go into a blacksmith shop, and steal an axe, that blacksmith should either:

1) Attack me directly, since calling guards might take too long
2) Go outside, fetch a guard, report the crime, and then the guards persue me on foot
3) if they dont catch me, I lose "faction" with that region, eventually being unable to do business with anyone (in that region)
4). if they do catch me, I either hand over the goods and a fine, or, I resist and fight to the death. The guards should be powerful, but not too powerful - theyre freaking guards and Im a champion warrior of the wilds. Bonus here if the guards are smart enough to block the exits and force me to contend with 10+ of them if I try and escape (thats where stealth becomes necessary...).

Just some ideas Currently I find too much cognitive dissonance to RP through this. TIA.


[edit] I kept repeating the action to see what would happen, and "Justicar" keeps materializing from nothing and following me around, but at least now I can see the gold being taken from me. There is an added bonus that it seems about 2x laggier now since he is following me like a shadow, not sure if its coincidence or not. He also matches my movement speed precisely, so even sprint and dash cause him to run the same exact speed - its strange and bot-like, not immersive.[/edit]

 

There should just be a guard that teleports in, instakills you (or chases and instakills you on contact, a chance to run away!) and then teleports out in a puff of smoke when you're dead.

But only while you're in guard protection.

 

Agree, the whole system feels cheap. The punition is far beyond any RPG I've played...

I'm not going to comment on how repulsive I think it is, it wouldn't be nice... so I'm going to say its insulting.

 

So I went into the blacksmith's shop in Ardoris to purchase arrows, I double clicked him to begin conversation. I guess there was something between me and him and completely without option/warning the justicar appeared and accused me of stealing and fined me. I hadn't knowingly stolen anything, I was just trying to purchase arrows!

 

There was talks of giving a warning when committing a criminal action, like in UO... but since the dev communication skill are so great, we have no idea if it was noted in JIRA or just commented off-hand...

 

Many telethons ago, there was a proposal that instead if someone committed theft, they'd get flagged as a thief for PvP until the crime was resolved somehow, probably when a bounty was collected. Then, they could have included NPC guards in the equation somehow, attacking you or stopping you for arrest, without the game having to rely on the NPC guards fully for the consequences, since there would have been the bounty as an additional consequence even if you escaped the guards. Turning oneself into the guards and paying the fine could have served as a way of paying the bounty oneself out of one's own pocket, and shutting off the [Thief] PvP flag if that player wasn't willing to PvP.

I thought this was a great idea, and elaborated more with further thoughts in a thread on how I thought this could form the basis of a justice system in game.

However, there were complaints that this would make the PvE and PvP worlds touch each other, bring peanut butter into their chocolate. :/ I think its unfortunate if the devs decided against this because of the complaints, because I think they still could have made it relatively PvE-safe by giving players options, and meanwhile the game is being shortchanged something that would work a lot better.

 

Part of me doesnt mind this, though I wish it wasnt so easy to happen. It def shouldnt happen as youre entering a dialoge!

But how often in some medieval world do you think someone, esp an outlander, gets accused of stealing when the accused was completely innocent? I think it should happen once in a while, and maybe combined with a reputation system.

Perhaps if you have very high faction with a town, people tend to look the other way when you steal, though faction drops slightly.

Perhaps if you have very low faction with a town, you better be careful of any thing you click on, even every door you open, as someone may have a strong intention of calling the guard on you.

Perhaps an outlander with no faction to a town is suspicious by default, so you get fined on your first steal - accident or not.

Perhaps with even some positive faction, you can reason with the guard, and select a "im sorry sir, it was an accident, here, take the item back!" and you are not fined, but you lose a bit of faction with the shopkeeper, and maybe the town itself - it was an awkward moment afterall. Give the shopkeeper a rose and get some faction back . Your second steal that day - accident or not, will result in a fine and faction loss, you sloppy dolt!

 

I love this, and it doesnt force those worlds together - dont steal if you dont want a bounty on your head, simple. Pay the bounty yourself if you want to back in the Oracle's graces, simple.

How do you avoid a speeding ticket? Dont speed.

 

if you want back in her graces

stupid oracle that can step in between me and my loot... sorry you can only loot the items I chose and I insure the loser.

But I'll let you randomly steal items without interfering, just to watch you suffer !!!

 

Yah, just like in UO, the thief should remain attack-able ("grey") to the victim long after the thief is not attack-able by all other players ("not criminal"). Maybe the guards and other players let go of the issue, but its not like you forget who just stole from you!

 

So if one 'steals' something, it would be nice if the "justicar" would indicate -what- was stolen. I still don't have a clue what I got fined for.
========= edit to add.
So, was in the smithy selling a boat load of materials. Likely double clicked 'something'. With the smith standing there ... Clearly I was still in the 'store'. Would it not make more sense for the smith to say; "Oh, by the way.... that rusty sword will be 50 gp." Then I can say 'no' and return it to him. Seriously, I'm not going to steal a shield from this guy while I'm in the middle of selling him 1000 gp in gear drops.

 

whole concept preposterous...

 

A thief would. Common misdirection tactic!

 

lol