Tram Killed UO is Tram back?

@Lanatir - you must have missed the talk with LB that talked about spawning rares at a gypsy camp during a (full or new) moon. The last person "standing" would be able to buy the item from the gypsy. If that doesn't scream open PvP then I would usually resort to calling you a name but we know that's not allowed. Have a great day!

 

sounds to me like a pvp battleground like its done in wow or other mmos, and nothing like 'open pvp in the open world'. you go into the zone to kill other PVP FLAGGED players for a reward. sure, go ahead. Face it. there will be no non consensual pvp in this game. never never never. and you can complain about it as much as you want.

 

<cite>They never SAID that there will be areas that are open pvp. not a single time.</cite>

So a PvP battleground that requires people to be in PvP mode isn't open PvP now? Good one <strike>Lanatir</strike> **censored**! Keep digging your hole buddy and don't forget it's Friday, relax!

<cite>A player that is NOT flagged for pvp will be able to go to every corner of the world and he will not ONCE even SEE a pvp player.</cite>

Based on your admittance to the gypsy scenario (or battlegrounds as you put it) you won't be able to go to every corner of the world.

You're a walking contradiction.

~Signed the equality house

 

you do know the difference between an enclosed little zone and the open world, right? One is like....a house, or an arena...and the other one is: the open world. and i couldnt care less if there is small small enclosed areas where some bloodthirsty nutcases beat each other up til none of them can walk anymore. hell, id deliver the sticks for them if they want to.

 

@Lanatir - I'm pretty sure there will be areas with better rewards and to get them you have to take some risks. Only PvE is a small risk area and PvP together with PvE is a high risk area so best rewards should definetly demand that higher risk.

If PvE only players want to get their hands on those really good rewards then take some risks. Getting the best rewards without taking the risk make no sense whatsoever.

 

@Illesac -
<blockquote>
@Lanatir ? you must have missed the talk with LB that talked about spawning rares at a gypsy camp during a (full or new) moon. The last person ?standing? would be able to buy the item from the gypsy. If that doesn?t scream open PvP then I would usually resort to calling you a name but we know that?s not allowed. Have a great day!
</blockquote>

How are we still having these arguments? To quote Chris (lead designer):
<blockquote>
... The open world is NOT PVP. That rumor is being spread by some trolls in the forums. We?ve been VERY clear that PVP will be consensual and not required. The rewards of PVP will primarily be things that are only valuable to PVP?ers. You will be safe from PK?ers and so will the goods of your house unless you choose to join in.
</blockquote>
From: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=growing-concerns-about-single-player

Any messages after that one where someone claims that it is going to be a PVP open world must fall into the rumor spreading trolls by definition.

The type of scenarios like the gypsy camp are events similar to warzones or arenas or the like, not open world PvP.

If Lanatir doesn't know what 'open world' is then by your definition, Chris doesn't either. However those are not the only options, and I will leave it to the reader to come to their own options/conclusions.

Everyone, have a great day!

 

@Elvish:

I am not exactly sure what "... the open world is NOT PVP" means. I have heard there could be areas of the open world that are PVP during other discussions. This leads to speculation that the PVP system is not firmly in place. Thus, the only conclusion I can draw from it is that the PVP system is still in development phase. Also, by LB's previous posts that ideas and discussion is still required for PVP I will assume anything is up to debate until a clear outline has been given.

 

Heyo it's Elvish to the rescue. Thanks for the reply and I guess I always knew the entire world isn't open PvP (towns, travel map, etc.) so I always thought of it on an instance by instance basis. My cries for open PvP is to have many instances and not just sanctioned tournament zones which seem too contrived but places where emergent gameplay can develop.

Something in your quote from Chris bothers me but should probably go into another thread unless I'm just reading it wrong (always a possibility)

<cite>You will be safe from PK?ers and so will the goods of your house unless you choose to join in.</cite>

Are we saying that housing can be broken into when a town is taken over? I'm ok with preventing me to get to my house and maybe burning my crop outside but losing gear from a locked house worries me.

 

There is an answer that makes all of them consistant...

Basically in OPO the world switches between PvP/single/etc based on context (you go into the gypsy scenerio you are in PvP, you go into certain story areas it turns friends or even single mode). The FPO and SPO are non-PVP and as LB said in one of the recent devchats people don't see the PvP quests and such. However the OPO people won't see the FPO and SPO people anyway.

LB was emphatic in the recent devblog to say that of the choice is between giving options to the carebears and not giving options that the option will be given.

[it is near the beginning of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezBHobrJhow&amp;feature=youtu.be]

I see no contradiction so far, I do see a lot of people skimming the information being given and coming to conclusions inconsistent with the facts so far.

 

i THINK they mentioned something about the whole house issue. there is no decision made yet about if houses of pvp flagged players will be subject to breaking in or theft. or even robbery.

 

<blockquote>Are we saying that housing can be broken into when a town is taken over? I?m ok with preventing me to get to my house and maybe burning my crop outside but losing gear from a locked house worries me.</blockquote>

They go into it a bit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezBHobrJhow&amp;feature=youtu.be &lt; here. Basically it looks like they are maybe providing a flag system so that people can choose to participate... but they have not worked out any of the details nor are done more than thinking about it. The key is it will be an option... so I don&#039;t think it will be a case that you will likely be able to loose stuff unless you make a choice to risk that.

 

@Elvish:

I don't need the link, I listened to the entire thing multiple times. I have read there will "safe" routes and "dangerous" routes as well. I have also heard that PVP will be tweaked during alpha and beta stages. Are we not reading/listening to the same things?

"The key is it will be an option? so I don't think it will be a case that you will likely be able to loose stuff unless you make a choice to risk that"


I haven't read or heard anything of that nature either.

Anyway, I appreciate your opinions on the matter.

 

@Elvish - Watch out with the derogatory language as people/mods are taking offense to certain words used to describe non-PvPers

I watched the videos again from your nicely placed timer and am hereby resigning from posting on this discussion because they have the right answer. There is some key language in there that is very subtle that gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling that they've got it right. Off to the housing and crafting subs!

 

@illesac - huh?.... oh! ok, sorry I think it is clear from the context that I was not trying to use it in a derogatory fashion and if that context doesn't show it one merely has to read through my post history to see my thoughts on the subject are not consistent with using it in a derogatory fashion.

 

@Aficionado - go back and watch the last dev hangout again. You are definitely missing something. There may be parts of the world or scenarios that are designated as "pvp", but the whole world is not "open-pvp."
Apparently, there is going to be an option in how people are grouped to allow pvpers to group together in the open world. You will likely see only pvpers, not non-pvpers. Thus, the world will *seem* to be open pvp, while it really is not. The non-pvpers will have a world filled with people like them, so the world will *seem* to be consensual only pvp, while it is really not. There will not, however, be a world full of victims for the griefers to harass.

As for the areas that are "open-pvp", they have repeatedly said that they want to entice people into this area, not force them.

@Elvish - despite the fact that I don't like the term being thrown around, the tone of your posts is such that no offense is taken on my part. I have yet to see you say anything derogatory. Keep up the good work in trying to keep the discussions civil.

 

@Otha:

I am sorry to hear about your bad experiences with PK's. But, you cannot without a doubt appreciate the fact that the game developers did not impose restrictions on players. I guess I don't understand why YOU didn't do something about it. There were hundreds of ways to avoid getting PK'd and it wasn't like you couldn't defend yourself. I am disappointed that you think PK's were all bullies.

The fact is creating an environment which imposes restrictions on players is not characteristic of a sandbox game. There were guilds you could join who often protected their members against PK's. The great thing about it is that you were able to enjoy an unrestricted environment, controlled by the players and not the developers.

I feel that immersion is broken when you begin restricting what a player may or may not do. This is an MMORPG after all, most people go online to compete against other players. Take a look at Starcraft, League of Legends, etc. These games, although they are not MMORPGS, are games where players go online to compete against one another. I guess I just don't see the point of logging into multiplayer and grouping with your friends to go battle a computer.

Good thoughts, keep them coming!

@Dranack:

Please go back and re-read my post. I've watched the video multiple times, thanks for the offer though. The only thing I heard in the video was a discussion of the map in the game.

 

<blockquote>?The key is it will be an option? so I don?t think it will be a case that you will likely be able to loose stuff unless you make a choice to risk that?

I haven?t read or heard anything of that nature either.
</blockquote>

You are right, I mis-remembered the videos... I really wish we could get a full transcript of them but google's CCing system is laughable try turning it on some time to read the auto CCs

Where I got the mistaken idea was from
"... the only thing that is up for debate is what level of letting people break into their homes, other PK types. " about 44:22 into it. There are other references (I will have to dig up if you want exact references) from the livestream where they have said that you will be able to set access lists and that you would not be able to steal from the house. SO combining those two, I stand by my interpretation, but it is in fact just an interpretation, quite correct.

 

I am hoping that the "closed" PvP in this game is not zone restricted (battlegrounds, GW2), but option restricted. I'm fairly certain we know what they have planned for PvE players, being to go (almost?) anywhere they please without PvP, but we do not know how PvP players will be roped off yet. The house looting discussion alludes to PvP fights cropping up in many different areas, but not as to whether PvP players can encounter each other while questing and duke it out.

 

@LordSlack - I think that if you listen to a bit in the beginning of https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=k2Vbf5DDz2w your worries might be set to rest... I will have to go listen to it myself when I am done with what I am doing to be able to tell you for sure, but I remember something about that being discussed.

 

@Aficionado - Just to be clear, I am not referring to the link Elvish put up(the dev hangout from 4/15), but the dev hangout from yesterday (4/18). If you watched the one Elvish linked, there was likely nothing in it that I was talking about.

The 4/18 dev chat, though, gives a clear rundown of the pve/pvp system.

For a full summary of the dev hangout, see this thread: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?topic=text-recap-dev-chat-41813-pve-focus

The first thing listed in the summary is the exact point I was making above.

PVP will be limited, but it won't *feel* limited.

"This is an MMORPG after all, most people go online to compete against other players."

Can you back this up with *any* statistical evidence? I would agree that this is the case in the non-mmorpg games you mentioned, but this just doesn't fit my experience of mmorpgs at all.