Trolls!

I never said ogres were good.

 

The quote actually implies that one enlarged human might not have been as surprising as what he saw. Therefore, enlarging a body, though uncommon, seemed more "normal." That tells me there is some visual evidence of multiple bodies being merged together, otherwise there would be no way for him to tell the difference, and therefore be surprised about it.

 

Um.. no it doesn't. There is no implication anywhere that the magic created the fomorians.. troll, ogre or otherwise.. changes the total mass of the subject. If it could then there would be no reason to think multiple subjects would be required. If anything, pointing out that multiple humans were involved implies that the total mass is unchanged.

 

This entire thread should be renamed "Book Spoilers"

 

fantasy lore? Fantasy Lore is what a story makes it. Good vs. Evil being black & white is appropriate for simplistic fairy tales perhaps, but the Ultima's have always purposely blurred that line, to make players question their own prejudices. I hope SotA morality goes much deeper than conforming to fairy tale stereotyping. Done right, it will not break immersion, but make it feel that much more real!

 

Traditional Fantasy Lore then...

As much as you may enjoy new ways to tell old stories, I'd love JUST ONCE to have a playground where I can RP these old stories. That's why I'm so adamant about keeping the lore more traditional. Because the other MMO's have very poor RP environments.

 

This isn't making sense to me.

"The creature, he realized with a surprise, was not one human enlarged in
form, but multiple humans merged into a single form."

He was surprised, because he realized by looking at the creature, that it wasn't simply one human enlarged in form, but multiples merged together. He could tell, by looking at it that the magic didn't enlarge one subject, but merged several subjects together. That implies magic could have changed the mass, but there is visual evidence that this is not the case. So I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

I must apologize, Sir Frank! I mis-referenced. It was Browncoat Jayson's post I was remembering:

 

I'm going to be terribly stubborn here and point out that "is not" does not mean "could have been". I realize you're not an alien from Mars. Doesn't mean you could be. There is not a single instance in BotA that describes magical enlargement. However I will concede the point the quote could be seen an implying such.. but at the same time it is also from an individual's perspective. As in he at first may have thought it was once an enlarged human but for whatever reason rejected that theory.

But.. IF it were possible to magically enlarge a subject as such.. then merging multiple subjects makes no sense at all. Why make one troll when you can make 5? (or however people it takes to make 1). It just doesn't add up. I can only imagine it would be a heck of a lot easier and cost effective to enlarge 1 human than use up several merging into one being. If it were possible.

 

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. Perhaps his reference to 'enlarging' was a simple fact that they weren't, because he knew they couldn't be, and simply didn't share those details with us in the commentary. I propose a different theory:

Enlarging is probably still possible, but more flesh means less magic spent, while less flesh means expending more magic, and the obsidian mages likely cared little for how many humans they sacrificed for their cause (which are probably rather inexpensive to breed/capture vs. waste a single extra drop of magic they don't have to), and chose to go about the more magic-efficient root for their purposes.

This theory means there must be some form of evidence during his observation of the troll, to make him realize this difference.

I will agree that it could go either way though. And Seeing no 'evidence' as of yet in the current model, could mean it was never there as you propose, or possibly after several generations, any 'magical scarring' of the originals may no longer exist through the bloodlines.

 

Why not ask RG and TH what they were thinking

 

Consider this then.. enlargement could be induced medically with the right knowledge but at cost which presumably magic would compensate for. Where as merging you're melding bone to bone, muscle to muscle, nerve to nerve so on and so forth. The human body is far too complex.

Again though.. the realization that a troll was not a single enlarged human makes any other visual clues moot. The size of the troll alone becomes the only visual clue you need. Although.. "magical scaring" in first generation trolls (or any other fomorian for that matter) is just vague enough.. and descriptive enough to work. I can't imagine any other visual indicators that might give away the troll as an amalgamation.. unless they had multiple appendages they shouldn't have.. which they don't. Scarring patterns could give it away. I like that.. magical scarring. Ok.. you guys can win that one. I can except that explanation.

 

Ooh, we could hold a Q&A book reading party! :-D

Great idea Redfish! err.. Bluefish!

 

I could see that, when he finally saw one in person, and how big they really are, this could bring him to that realization for sure. Thanks for explaining!

Does anyone have any favorite ideas for a Troll encounter? Where would you want to run into one? How should it play out?

I'd love to wander into a cave with strange smelly large dung droppings outside..

Climbing a remote trail along a mounain ridge could lead to a random encounter with a mountain troll up ahead, hefting a club as it peers to the side down the cliff, licking its lips as it observes a human sheep farm in the near distance.

every hex with a bridge over a river should be enterable, and/or often randomly instanced for bridge troll possibilities.

I'd love to enter hexes that have NPC guards/knights in mid combat with a large Troll who wandered too close to the man roads, where the Troll will win if we don't assist.

Any more thoughts / ideas?

 

Oddly I'm more interesting in their social structure and intelligence. can they be reasoned with? Are they obsessed with eating people? (like we don't have enough of THAT around here ) Are they solitary or could we find them in numbers?

 

There's a model from real folklore But I don't know what RG and TH are after.

 

An aspect of the troll in armor that seemed odd to me was the bare thigh and lightly armored arms.

Bear with me here.

With a torso and arms like that, it is absolutely indicative of a gorilla. And having that much weight up top would force anything shaped like that to stoop, and use it's arms for motivation.

Once stooped, not only would those arms act as natural barriers against an opponent in front, but the thighs and hind quarters would be exposed.

It would seem that even a semi intelligent creature would capitalize on its strengths by protecting it's massive arms. While also shoring up the glaring weakness on its back side.

The armor on the front of the torso should be lighter, and focus on vital spots, while sturdier on the back, and legs. The leather armor distribution just seems to "Human Guard" to me.

Edit: Just saw the updated visuals with longer, thicker legs. Definite improvement. Maybe now it can wear some thigh protection.