Turning in to a Hack/Slash and Magic MMO

I believe Lord Blackthorn stated this would not be your "MMO Wow type?" I believe he said this would be more of a casual game? with the hardcore gamers in mind.

Although I believe this game needs PvE aspccts I also believe social enviornment skills and out of the box social skills that improve the economy and or have a place in RP are the utmost importance.

So why out of all the topics am I seeing a game being made that is like every other Asian mock up and or Hack and Slash grind fest with an end goal of PvP?

Please don't turn this in to another base model MMO with nothing unique..

 

KrojinKin with all due respect, I've yet to see a video or really much in the way of information from the Devs on Shroud of the Avatar on the combat engine.

Out of all the topics, I suppose you mean all of them about the PvP? These are forum users, sometimes contributers and backers of the game and in no way would PvP demands put forth by them be looked at kindly from anyone except other hardcore PvP.

Lord British has said several times, he doesn't want a grind to level game, or even a game based on levels. Lord Blackthorn has also indeedstated, as well as many others, probably most of the team by the way, they don't want this to be another clone game.

I have faith in the word of those people, it is certainly way too early to call this game a hack and slash grind fest with PvP... Please be patient, please do keep voicing your opinions and your desires for the game you wish to play of course but just know it is still a bit early!

 

Boy one more PvP topic... There will be a story and from what I understand you will need to do the story to get to the next area. Please lets not turn this into PvP saves the world.

 

I've been beating the drum of innovation for months, and three things have become crystal clear, to me:

1. Most Players don't want unique, new, nor innovative mechanics or systems. They want what is familiar.
2. Portalarium has neither the time, resources, nor priority to truly innovate many systems prior to EP1 Launch.
3. Core mechanics and underlying systems (the deep details of the game) are not up for true iterative discussion with Portalarium.

So far, KrojinKin, "guiding the game" means players providing content.
You may create some cutlery, and it may make it into SotA, but our opinions on how that cutlery might be used is not part of "guiding the game".

 

OMG KROJINKIN, YOU SAID THE PVP-WORD!!!

@vjek: in regards to no. 1 on your list, nobody knows what is unique, new or innovative mechanics or systems, hence they can only speak about what is familiar.
Not that I'm defending them, on the contrary, I feel one should force new and unique on them so they learn to appreciate it. That way the new will become the familiar.

 

Agree to a small point.

1. I think players want unique but don’t know anything better than the old UO. It was mind blowing and years before its time. It still is one of the best out there in many aspects.
2. I think there is a lot we do not know right now and a lot will surprise us. I do think they have the resources that they need.
3. I think they are listening but not discussing.

I think there has been a lot of thoughts into the game over many years. Things that LB and others have wanted to do and could not. I am excited to see what they come up with and trying not to judge to much right now.

 

You can add infinite amounts of content if the mechanics work. You can even crowd source it. But if the mechanics don't work, the game is dead on arrival.

 

All of that said, the one thing they're talking about making unique about the combat, specifically the rune bag where you can't always use the spells and skills you memorize... is something that could literally ruin the game for me.

As it stands right now, it makes it very unappealing and it's only the fact that I know RG & Hickman's story will be awesome that keeps me interested. I hope that will be enough, but if I'm not into the journey and excitement on my way through it, I question if it will be enough.

Normally, I'd be like "We can wait and see..." before I get all Debbie Downer on it, but combat is such a HUGE part of fantasy RPG's, and trying to create and rebalance an entirely new system at the end doesn't sound like a solid recipe for a stable game.

It's the only thing out of the development team I've heard that worries me. Everything else I feel super positive about their direction... but this saddens me that I may have spent dev+ funding to support a game that I have no interest in.

Currently, I'm not even saying "Burn it down and give us the standard" I just want to have a hangout, or even Dev+ hangout, where they can put some of our worries to rest. The longer it takes to get to see it, the more concerned I am that we won't be able to correct things.

 

All anyone knows about ANY of the mechanics of this game at this point are incomplete statements and vague comparisons to other systems. Even if someone, for example, hates the rune/random/whatever aspect of combat as an idea, they have no idea if they will actually like it until they play it, assuming they can get past their own opinions about something they haven't tried.

I think it's pretty easy to say SotA is too much THIS or not enough THAT with the scarcity of information we have, but no one knows yet what it will end up being.

 

THIS I agree with 100%. But with as polarized as the community is on most issues, I can also understand why they are real hesitant to give specifics, because this group will not give them the benefit of the doubt and wait to try the team's ideas first.

 

@Phredicon

The problem is a lot of those statements, though incomplete, together point at something that doesn't sound good...

Such as this from http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/253734/page/2:

“Our combat system works in such a way that you may not always have the spell you want prepared at a given time. The benefit of casting a specific spell on an item and having that item equipped is that you have that spell there and constantly available as long as you have charges left.”

It raises a few questions immediately for me:

1) Why be a mage if I'm not able to use my spells?
2) Why is a spell I know how to cast not available?
3) Beyond preparation, what determines their availability? Serious balance questions here.

And that's just that nugget. And that's a point they seem really stuck to in terms of how this system works, and it honestly concerns me. What concerns me more is the fact that they talk about it enough to show they've put some effort and thought into it, but they're being evasive leaves me with the impression that they are going to unveil it too far into development to make any changes.

I genuinely hope I'm wrong, and the combat system will be something I can get behind, but I have only heard one thing I like about it, and that's that different armor will affect how many abilities are available to you... that's an interesting concept. But connecting the rest of their dots isn't drawing a picture I'm excited about.

 

I actually trust that they are doing a fine job, far better than I could so I'll leave it all to them. I gave them hundreds (yes gave) of dollars and if the game is Crap so what, there's a far better chance that I won't play because I have a life outside of video games. When I'm hired to build a cabinet, the WORST thing is for the customer to tell me how to do it, step by step. Just give me a picture, drawing & go away.

Sent from my HTC-Z710a using Tapatalk now Free

 

@Isycle

Yes, if they hire you to build a cabinet, they probably shouldn't be over your shoulder micromanaging the cabinet. As a programmer myself, micromanaging clients only lead to scope creep. I get it. I really do.

But if you took their money and then said "You're going to be my test case for a revolutionary new shelving system inside!!!! Different than what you usually get in a cabinet" I think they'd have the right to ask some questions and see what your'e doing, and whether it really is going to be functional for your cabinet needs.

 

The real roots of this game are in Dungeons and Dragons way back in the 70's.
If you were a mage, you might have a huge spellbook, but each day you had to memorize just a few spells to have available that day.
What SotA has planned seems to be closer to those roots than having every spell you know available at any time.

So to answer your questions:
1) You are able to use your spells. Just not all spells, all of the time.
2) Because you only have so much capacity to store them in your head, you can only have a few spells ready to go at any one time.
3) Availability is based on the ebb and flow of magic energy in the world, stress of combat. Fog of war.

 

Exactly my point - You hear "may not always have the spell you want prepared at a given time" and immediately think "that sucks because of 1, 2 and 3!" when the reality (and hope) is that they might be designing a system that makes sense conceptually and is, more importantly, FUN TO PLAY.

We just don't know yet.

 

People are so intense about even the smallest details that if I were a dev I would wait as long as possible until I had things very well designed.

Every time the devs burp, there's a thread that the world is going to end.

 

I'd love to believe you, but that's not the story they laid out. Their concept is, I know the fireball spell, I have it prepared in my bag, I will be able to cast it when I draw the rune at random from my bag...

... and so even though I have a hoard of kobalds charging me, all the things in place to cast fireball, the game says "Nope. You're going to remember your power fist, light heal, and because you're wearing plate armor you drew a slug rune, and no third skill right now. Good luck! Maybe you'll get your spell next time."

I'd be all down for a "You have to prep your spells ahead of time old school D&D style" and then cast those as you need them. That would make my old school heart super happy.

But then take it a step further, they've said this applies to fighter tallents too. That's right... Need to do a head shot against the cyclopse? Better hope you draw the rune. Even though you know how to do it, have absolutely nothing that stops you from doign it, you unfortunately drew shield bash and power thrust. Maybe next round.

At least they seem to have walked back the item stuff, because Chris had originally said drinking potions would be determined by what's in your pack.

So, there's a lot of FUD going arround about combat... and it's honestly the only worrisome part for a lot of people I've talked to. If they're reading this, we really need this laid out, specifically, so we know what we're talking about, and if we hate it, that there is time to suggest changes (much like dom john's map offerings.)

@Phredicon

You're making the claim that it's impossible to infer what something will be like until you have all the information, and that's simply untrue. For while I may not know what the final thing will look like, I know what they're cutting out, and what's getting lost.

With all other systems, there's a sense of player agency whre the player has lots of control over every part of what they make their player do.

But with combat, they're showing that they're taking that in a different direction by putting all your options in a randomizer, and only letting you play with some of them as they see fit. That may not be what we get... but that's what they're saying they're building. We're loosing the player agency that is so apealing for the rest of the game, in the one place that it's most interesting.

If you want to make that big a change, not just to how RPG's have been done, but to the vibe of the rest of the game, it would be nice if you could help the fans get on the same page. Especially when you've decided to make this a sort of open development process. Suddenly getting cagey about one part of it feels like a huge red flag.

 

Well when I listened to the interview Lord british wanted this game to be casual, where someone who wanted to be non combative he could do that without lifting a sword to obtain a type of resource. In my opinion you need to just be able to obtain all resources -- to get them all you need to do is either explore, find new area's find the resource via skills like Agriculture. And or, buy them from wandering merchants "real people" who come to your town and have it in stock and or find them traveling buy it from them then.

Not some grinding for resources on wolves for mandrake, Anyways for

@vjek

if You don't give people something interesting and a learning curve or atleast new content that someone else hasn't already diluted, people will quit nearly instantly which isn't what you want.

1. Don't focus on the fighting mechanics to the point of the RP mechanics social Mechanics, are plain boring and limited.
2. If your mechanics only focus on Fighting and PvP your an asian mmo with a new map style.
3. items and custimization allow for Rpers to conduct their own stories and make it interesting. "Allows for Rpers to make their own Quests and Fun Times "
4. It's well known that most of the PvE'ers and PvP'ers will keep moving on from game to game, whatever is new and boasts better mechanics.

So over all I believe focusing on RPers and Casual gaming groups will not only increase revenue but a better sustaining revenue.

PvPers and PvEr's are your initial money makers. But then what? You keep pumping out more pve content pvp mechanics?
Rper's will be satisfied with new clothing options, Exploration, Views and Custimizations of furniture/clothing/makeup/on going hair styles and housing just keep those fresh and you have a sustained community.
Plus most Rpers are willing to pay a monthly cost vs your New generation PvPers and PvErs, who can flip over a mmo site and find themselves new and upcomming grind fests on a daily basis.

you should just think about it.

 

I completely agree, and my post above was in support of your position. I was just pointing out what I've observed on these forums to date.
Put another way, you're going to have to drag a few hundred people over to your lookout on the mountain of SotA, before the idea that SotA needs innovation will gain any traction.

 

It has been said and inferred several times - the team has an idea. They think they can make it work, so they're going to try. Whether it works or not will be determined by the players during alpha. If most people think it sucks then they have plenty of time for a makeover. Meanwhile there is plenty of content and balancing that needs to be worked out no matter what system they employ.
( I allow I may have misinterpreted, miscontrued or missed a vid., but that's what I think I heard)

Until then, you can doomsay all you wish, but I prefer to give it a chance before I condemn it.