twitch combat instead of turn based/cooldown combat

@DeathandCo Stamina is a solution that can work if balanced properly. Each combat move (offense and defense) use a portion of your character stamina pool, modified by move, equipment, status, etc).

This could accurately reflect and simulate realistic combat. I mean you can only swing this sword, jump, lunge, deflect, and otherwise move and position so many time and so fast before your character exhaust himself and becomes an easy target.

Perhaps decreasing character defenses as he tires should also be accounted for.

 

@Hai-Etlik Dragon
Very much agreed. Most of the punches a boxer throws are likely to be right jabs. But you cannot throw these all the time. The left keeps him honest. When you see the he's off balance you can throw a bigger punch (hook, uppercut, etc) which might be slower to develop and easier to counter.

 

This is just something a hopeful fool like me would wish for and I'mma just get flamed for this, but I would like a combat more reminiscent of Witcher 2 (granted it WILL be impossible due to the amount of information that needs to be sent over the internet). There aren't any hot key skills like what SotA is going for, but there is that instant kill counter button that needs to be removed. It's twitch based, but not super fast, you have your standard light and heavy and is more about positioning and knowing when to strike instead of bashing every button as hard as you can like in God of War. When fighting you also have a sense of weight and have to master the time it takes to swing and when to swing. Just remove the rolling and replace it with a good sidestep while throwing in a stamina pool like Ser Alain to keep people from swinging wildly and I'd die happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y40i_rcPfqI

 

@Jouten
That looks good. It seems like he's got a small number of skills at any time and then goes to that menu to switch stances/weapons. That's basically what I'd advocate. A small number of skills at any time that cover: attack, cc, defense, finish and then a way to jump between stances. Obviously they're adding drama to the stance switching where it needs to be fluid, but the idea is there.

So I'm looking for something that it somewhat turned based, but the "turn" is a 1 second use or lose turn. You're still making fast decisions, but you're not fighting the UI to get more actions per second since that's effectively throttled be a global cooldown.

 

I'd love.. loove twitch based combat. RaiderZ had that and I liked that part yet there has to be initiation skills which locks and launches to the rival. If not so, spells have to have channelling system. Otherwise mages can get you easy with cheesy "run-spell-run" so called "tactic". I hate that, it's just not a fair and enjoyable encounter. It doesn't measure your fighting skills, it's just being trolled.

And bow users should be able to run, ride and shoot at the same time with a little bit disturbance on the pointer or whatever it is that shows where are you aiming at.

 

It doesn't seem fair to me to allow one group to perform ranged combat on the run, but not another. I think both groups should have the same restrictions.

Now one might say that ranged combat on the run is less effective than taking time to set things up (like an aimed shot), and therefore does less damage. This mechanic could apply to everyone.

 

@PABS

I played a bit of RaiderZ but I found the combat to be dull (probably due to the crazy amount of skill bars and hotkeys). If they were to put in some twitch based combat I would hope for it to at least have some sort of depth or a sense of weight. You can do a lot with just light and heavy swings and would at least give you some kind of control in combat instead of hoping for the right skill to pop up.

<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/reviews/lz39qw/dragon-s-dogma--dark-arisen-review">Dragon's Dogma</a> did a pretty damn good job of the melee and range. The magic in that game however was overpowered to hell, but it would be pretty cool to see something of that scale in game. But this is just a personal preference that I'd doubt I'd see in game. A lot of monsters would have to be tweaked with animations and AoE attacks to handle the movements required in those games.

At the very least I hope that we do have some control over our swings. I'm getting tired of games where all you do is riverdance in front of the enemy as you see their bar dwindles down.

 

I'm going to take issue with a comment by BK.
"After all the majority of the fan base of SotA are Ultima/UO players who are now older than 20, many are in their 30?s already." I had a good laugh at that.

I think you may be underestimating the age of many people here. There are a lot of us here that have left the "30's already" a long time ago. Ultima I came out 33 years ago. Some played it as adults. I was 30 when I was introduced to Ultima IV on an Apple ][. My ability to twitch left me long ago.

 

@Mugly Wumple

My question to you then, and please don't take this the wrong way, but does PVP interests you then? Maybe there can be a system where the combat is automatic just like Ultima 7 for the story aspect of the game, but have a refined/twitch based combat system for PVP.

I understand the need to not have twitch based combat for the original Ultima players, but I some of us who have been MMO hopping, waiting for something that doesn't involve the necessary grind like in Tera Online or RaiderZ, would love to have some in depth combat system in SotA. Again though, I doubt RG would want to disregard the people who made his games so great by making combat frustrating for them. Also, at the same time trying to balance the monsters so that they will be equally difficult to people who play in "Automatic" mode and "Twitch" mode the same will take up a lot of time and resources.

 

PvP does not interest me, but I doubt one can even play the game without PvE. I find it unlikely that they will develop two or more different combat systems. While you may wish a game that offers a new variation of combat, I hope for a game that, with my low dexterity, I am able to even play - such RPG's are few and far between.

I'm 60 years old. Even in my youth my dexterity and my affinity for adrenaline were low. This puts me in a small minority among the gamer population. I'm not asking for a game to be designed to my wishes. I can only hold out a hope that there will be aspects of the game that make my playtime rich.

My previous comment was merely a gentle prod that the base of Ultima fans is broad and diverse; that for some of us combat is not the reason we play a game. Indeed, it usually stymies us.

 

@Mugly Wumple - I'm 55 and started with Ultima as you a long time ago. I on the other hand still like the thrill of PvP even if my reflexes isnt what they used to be. There can be many roles in PvP guilds and i still fill my part very well in today games that is easier then old UO.

And i agree that the community here have different views on this game and dont seek the same features. Takes about 5 minutes of forum reading to see the different standpoints. The really strong part of this game is as i see it that you can set a playstyle that fits you.

 

@Mugly Wumple

That's exactly what I meant. I know it would be difficult, but it would be pretty nifty to have a "Manual" and an "Automatic" mode. Have it so your character would do the best combos/attacks it could do with minimal manual input in terms of hitting whatever skill pops up, but also have a way for the character to take full control of their swings. Kind of like in an airplane game, simple controls that'll do a lot of the manual work for you, but people who go into advanced settings can do moves that the simple controls wouldn't do; yet if somebody who doesn't know how to handle the advanced controls tries to fight against the simplified controlled character they would lose. And since, as you said, have no interest in PvP, I thought maybe this would be a win/win for everyone.

But again this is just an idea that I would love to see, but doubt would ever happen because of the amount of work needed to have something that flexible while keeping the difficulty for both playstyles.

 

As long as it has better combat than <em>Ultima 7</em>, I'll find a way to live with it. Better combat than <em>Dragon Age: Origins</em> means I'll also find a way to enjoy it.

Combat like in <em>Reckoning</em> means I'll never stop playing it.

 

Some of this is arguably Ultima's fault. The early PC games mapped every action to a different key. It was a way to show PC games as "richer" than console games. As mice got introduced, UIs got even worse but not limiting themselves to the mappable keys and having hundreds of things to click on.

I don't want the game reduced to one button. But reducing the number of decisions to 3-4 "do the smart thing" buttons actually empowers people with more choices than being confronted by dozens and leaving them paralyzed.

 

timing based combat systems can be a bit tricky... I really enjoyed Final Fantasy 11s skillchains. one person in your party uses one move, then you need to use another etc until you get get a magic burst, dealing tons of damage.

The timing was only part of it (not twitch, more of like, i see you used that im using this now) and going in the right order. It leds to a more strategic combat system, with only a little bit of sort of twitch to it. you couldn't wait too long or it ends.

In the early days figuring out those combinations was fun, then websites and books came out with a list of the chains, it was still fun figuring out which chains you would use in your group. but since the game was balanced for this type of combat, groups were mandatory. Now if we have companions so we can solo and pull off skillchains with our companions then that is cool.

They wouldn't need to follow the same formula for combat though, they could just use multiplying affects where using your skills in the proper order (slightly randomized due to the rune/deck system) can lead to bigger damage/healing with the final ability trigger.

From my basic understanding of the combat system it will give you skills/abilities/spells at set intervals(or possibly not set, might be based on the power of your last used ability). a strategic combat instead of a twitch combat. It might give you an option of 5 and pick one, or maybe you can build up and build up till you unleash all of your fury in one fell swoop after 30 seconds in combat. or maybe they want to give you 3 abilities, choose one, your other 2 are there and after a few seconds you'll get a 3rd again.

It really hasn't been said yet, I'm guessing they are discussing any number of those ideas though for what will have the most interesting and strategic combat.


I hope they don't do anything like what is currently considered "good combat" much of which is a series of button presses for combos or a timing based system... all of which are old (early 90s) inventions.