Upper Tiers.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Steevodeevo, Aug 3, 2019.

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  1. Steevodeevo

    Steevodeevo Avatar

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    Anyone awake?

    I play for a week, including working hard on yellow and orange mobs and get maybe 300/400k exp in a good week.

    For a blast i formed a UT group
    and with a bit of chatter with the great people of SOTA I somehow managed to get a 8 person party and enter UT. At that point I had about 500k exp.

    Once the mobs started to attack I alt_tabbed to the Web and browsed round looking as sports scores. Half hour later I had 2 million exp.
     
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  2. Mac2

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    First off, I dont think you got 2 mil in 30 minutes in a full party, secondly, you made a party and then leached off them, let them do the work and now your complaining they got you exp? WOW dude WOW.
     
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  3. Feeyo

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    Cool huh Upper "Tears" ..
    Most awesome "raid" mechanism ingame. Enjoy it.
     
  4. Feeyo

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    I think it was a correct sarcastic post of @Steevodeevo
     
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  5. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Bug Hunter

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  6. Dulayne

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    This was a joke, right ? @Steevodeevo
     
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  8. Barugon

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    It's temporary. They only raised the attenuation in order to identify and adjust problem scenes.
     
  9. Steevodeevo

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    The group itself was a joke, or rather an experiment but was advertised as a joke not a regular UT exp gathering event. Anyone who was online and joined the group knew what they were getting themselves into. It was advertised as 'The worst UT party of all time', had no player imposed level prejudice and encouraged people who had never done it before or were generally excluded for being too low level to join but be prepared to die, a lot, and have no expectations for success. The game for anything folks of Novia didn't bat an eye, and jumped in, to my amusement and pride.

    Yes I did max out my exp (from around 500k up to 2m) and yes I did spend much of the time checking out soccer scores and chatting with the group as the group was slaughtering mobs virtually on autopilot (We did need to merge with another incomplete UT group in order to get going so there may have been a sprinkling of lethal players in our party as well as complete UT virgins and low levels). I didn't loot a single mob as I doubt I killed more than a handful when I dipped back in from time to time to see what was going on and have a banter with the party.

    Mac, basically you say I'm lying about my exp gain, I'm not sure why you think I would do that? The post would be pretty pointless and fabricated nonsense if it was based on a lie. If any of the other 7 party members catch this post then maybe they can chip in, that's up to them. Also Mac, you say I leached. Well I guess I did in a way.. The basis of the group was with the full knowledge of the party members and it was a one off experience for me. UT isn't something I ever wanted to do and now certainly do not wish to do again, it breaks the game for me. I had to see it for myself and form my own opinion having read so much divisive rhetoric about UT on the forums.

    My point (and the reason for the experimental group in the first place), is of course what is the point of playing the game 'as intended', challenging oneself against harder mobs to get better experience and spending hours in doing so if you can spend half an hour in UT standing around in a meteor and firestorm and get 2m exp whilst doing very little?

    I'm all for 'each to their' own play style but where you have an option like UT sitting outside normal game play parameters my conclusion was it seems indefensibly broken, to me. My view. That's my point.
     
  10. Superbitsandbob

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    What is it that annoys people so much about the XP gain in UT? After a certain point, skills and AL require so much XP to raise that even running UT will take some time to raise them. I could understand it if Port gave any indication that they wanted to limit us in some way, but that doesn't seem the case. Is it just that you don't want other people to progress ahead of you to far?

    I can't think of any issue that would arise by someone just running UT endlessly to raise numbers higher and higher in real world gameplay other than the fact that their numbers will be higher than mine. Instead of trying to nerf or slow other people down for whatever arbitrary reason we should be asking for new interesting content or improve scenes already in the game instead of the endless stream of content for crafting, fishing, deco's and housing.
     
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  11. Mac2

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    At 1 mil attenuations it takes most parties 30 minutes, so unless you had some kinda rank super killer party( and you say you did not) then you did not pull 2 mil in that same amount of time. You want to challenge yourself? Try it solo and see how well you do. You dont challenge yourself by letting others do that work, you dont get better that way either. The only thing you really showed was that others players were nice enough to let you leach, thats all.
     
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  12. Steevodeevo

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    OK Mac, there wouldn't be any point in showing you a screenie as it wouldn't prove how long it took or whether I got it all in one go or indeed in UT. Folks will just have to take my honourable word for it - or not as in your case. In fact I went from around 500k exp to 2.26m exp. So it looks very much like I gained around 1.7m exp in however long it took. It may have taken a little longer than a half hour, I really wasn't counting the minutes, but my time estimate isn't wildly off.

    Folks are all built differently. I've found that over the years. Some folks will never, ever, get a point being made by someone or else will refuse to consider the point being made and convince themselves otherwise or deflect the discussion another way. I have also learned that it is a waste of time attempting to persuade or explain further in these situations.
     
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  13. Paladin Michael

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    I think it's the same old (and sometimes sad) story:

    The mechanism of training skills from an existing XP pool.

    I wondered many times (long before Upper Tiers existed), why my skills won't raise, if I have no (or not enough) xp in my pool.

    The hardest fights I had, earned ... nothing ...
    Dying again and again, until I made it to defeat a hardened skeleton as a newbie was a challenge - but not granted with any skill raising bonus (well, besides the xp AFTER I finished it).
    Isn't the effort to stand and fight the reason to improve skills? Not only to kill something.

    I am learning while attacking and defending myself against enemies. But therefor I get NO experience (!)
    I just get xp for a kill. It has always been a bit strange for me.

    That's not really quality of life, that's awful!

    You may fight half an hour or longer against a hard enemy without gaining any skill improvement, if you haven't any or low xp in your pool!
    Of course you may say: that's the law, that's how the game was created ...

    But is it fair or good game balance, to be treaten like this, while at another place you can raise xp for less effort?
    (And yes, I saw newbies just following UT to lvl up, because it is 'that' simple ... short term. Long term this destroys fun of exploring the lands ... they really have no reason to enter low tier scenes anymore! Means: having no possibility to raise skills later in game could be a great 'quit' reason ...
    Or are we thinking everbody who trains skills that way is interested to move into PvP?)

    We have so many interesting and great scenes and a lot of players won't go inside, because their is nothing to "earn". That's really sad.
    I think, after leaving Outskirts there are too many low tier lvl scenes.
    Low Tier lvl scenes should only be on the path scenes:
    East Perennial Trail is wonderful,
    Shuttered Eye is a great scene (I loved it also as it was a high tier scene!), but currently not for beginners on the path of love!

    Back to XP pool raising as reason for this thread:
    Every time I asked about the sense of this xp pool system (xp just raised after kills, not while you are doing the experience), people told me storys like:

    1. XP pool is because to prevent cheating
    Well, months later we knew: that's not true ...
    Chris confirmed people are still cheating.

    2. XP pool was installed so people have to do something to gain skill raising.
    OR
    3. XP pool is important, so people can't lvl up only by training with a training dummy or by cheating without playing real ...

    BUT
    .. this explanation is dead if someone is following a group to UT.
    And there are still places like Upper tiers, where game rules are changing, which isn't the real problem ...
    Let people do, what they like to do (well: means not to punish other players ;))

    People are asking:
    why do I spend time to explore the lands hour after hour and are treaten worse than spending half an hour in upper tears?

    Straight following the storyline isn't always possible, because the xp isn't high enough to reach the Adv.lvl in time to fight some high tier enemies ...

    It seems sometimes senseless telling about an ongoing "game balance" - while providing possibilities like Upper Tears the same time.
    (Well, if we have bigger groups in future, how shall it work with those mass xp places? I assume a restriction for "special" zones?)


    @Chris, @DarkStarr, @Lord British , I think, we need some help to get rid of those feelings ...

    I'm wondering why it's not possible to install a system that will help everyone earn fair XP to level skills, depending on their REAL effort:
    1. Increasing a base skill xp by using a skill against enemies.
    Each strike grants x XP depending on the level of an opponent and Adv.lvl of player: The larger the discrepancy, the higher the experience
    Reaching Grandmaster, nothing more can be learned by using it - so no more base skill xp raising.
    --> That's what I am missing now - to improve skills while they are used.

    2.1 Receive a bonus (xp) for increasing skills, depending on player Adv.lvl. and Tier of Enemy.
    Most bonus for red color. When the Tier color turns green, there is no further bonus (xp) for skill-raising.
    2.2 Playing in groups removes (2.1) and replaces it with a group bonus how it still works.

    3. Training with training dummies to improve skills should stop eventually, maybe with skills of 40?
    What else should I learn if I keep battling a puppet? ;)


    Such a system would help people to explore all Tiers and have a good growing effect on skills without feeling a waste of time (so called 'grinding').
    For this, of course, several places should get a higher tier. Only scenes, required for story, should be balanced in a kind of way ...
    [There also should be MIXED Tier scenes for surprisings, not only in Dungeons ;)]

    And if you remember, Avatars (if not, so start a new player for a few minutes):
    Starting as newbie, the skills are raising very fast (and I think, this happens sometimes a bit too fast ... ).
    Maybe the skill raising for low tier skills should be raised very little?
    This starting speed seems a reason for feeling less rewarded later ...

    And another important thing:
    Finishing Episode 1 (the path of the oracle), should gain at least 500,000 xp :) It is really a hard and long task to do!



    Maybe @Chris, you could consider a game mechanism like described above so that people who are exploring the lands do not feel underprivileged ...
    [Of course, only if we talk about skills raising and gaining xp ;)]


    As a result, many more players would feel that they are continually improving their skills while having fun exploring the lands, and would not look at it as a waste of time while xp pool gets less and less as they explore :(

    By the way: exploring the lands would be even more interesting if we could not see everything right away and there were also experience points for exploring and completing scenes :)


    Have a good time, Avatars, whatever your playstyle is :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  14. Arya Stoneheart

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    Need the XP shower to wake up first.

     
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  15. Mac2

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    1.7 mil in 40 minutes is about right. Now the part about learning about the challenge, let me give an example. Say I wanted to learn how hard it is to kill a dragon. If I just say hey sara, want to help me kill a dragon? Then he comes to help, but I dont actually help him but instead go surfing on the net while he kills the dragon for me, well, I did not learn anything about the challenge of killing a dragon, all I learned was sara was nice enough to come kill a dragon for me.
     
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  16. Steevodeevo

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    Yep I wouldn't disagree with anything there. Not sure what it has to do with my OP, but I've pretty much moved on from that as I've shared my personal observations about what I consider to be disjointed and disproportionate experience gain mechanics, which is the purpose of my post.
     
  17. Violet Ronso

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    I hope you skinned all the dragons yourself too, dont let sara benefit from this!

    The one issue I have with UT, is how a group of 3 people can clear wave after wave without even moving, I grouped with 3 Life Archers, would would use crossbows with Multishot and banish undead, and they literally said :"Stand here and dont do anything". 25 minutes later (this was pre R68), We were done, didnt move, just spammed 2 abilities (at least they did).

    Other zones have usually a certain challenge to them, Tartarus has enraged zombies and confusing wisps, but UT has NOTHING that reflects the exp it gives
     
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  18. City Slicker

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    People Bring 4-5 Alt accounts and they just "Stand there" how come now ones complaining about that? wanna talk about easy mode. LOL
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
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  19. Barugon

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    Yeah, I haven't seen this.
     
  20. Paladin Michael

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    And don't forget the XP! She earned all the XP for him ...
    You also could say, he learned how to earn without doing anything ;)
    However, you are right, Mac: it's not about learning ... it's just about fast leveling for another type of game playing ...
     
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