Upper Tiers.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Steevodeevo, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

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    I will say this, with the right build ( ice field meteor shower and fire skills) the zombies in tartarus are WAY easier then UT. They are melee, you can do it this way without getting hit, dont even need defenses. Trying to solo UT is a lot harder, they have ranged mobs that can hurt. But when you start talking about a party of people, well, There are a few areas that are going to be easy and give good exp. I would like to ask these questions. How many of you people that say its too easy can solo it? How many of you are not the person actually taking the agro in UT and dont realize that there is at least one person doing most of the work while you enjoy the ride? Most times I look at a ut party, there is one person taking most of the agro, getting smoked having to heal having to keep buffs up. If you are just one of those people who just sit back dont buff dont heal hardly even kill stuff, who do you think is getting hit and dealing the damage? Someone is, its just not you so you cant tell.
     
  2. Violette Dyonisys

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    I will agree with you that solo UT is something else. I personally havent tried it, but I know a few who can. In a group, I am usually a tank there, and to be honest, tanking with heavy armor and earth spec isnt too hard, I can usually self sustain, as long as others dish out the DPS for me.

    I agree Tartarus is far easier (for a mage*), and I've actually made a suggestion on how to make it harder to solo, but you still need to move around and run, UT as a group becomes an other level of easy, like I said, 3 archers using Banish undead from time to time can clear that no problem, without even moving! Try to do that in tartarus, and you will have a hard time!
     
  3. Mac2

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    Give me the right 3 people. And all the controls points are mainly people standing still as well. Look I am not disagreeing that ut wil be one of the places that prolly gets nerfed as with what chris is working on, but some of there people making it sounds like its super easy just piss me off. They give new players the wrong ideas with this misinformation. and most of the people saying its too easy cant solo it either. Now yes you with a tank build might not find tanking hard, your build is doing that, but your dps probably suffers from this and you still have to keep your buffs up and some heals.
     
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  4. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Just my little commentary. Having only just started doing UT with a friend.. I'm the tank out of two of while she heals and does most of the damage. If I don't keep my defenses up it's a lot harder to stay alive. She could solo it but it goes a lot faster with two as I pull them all into a tight little spot while she banishes the heck out of them. We go through 3 rounds in just over 40 minutes and attenuate about half way through the 3rd.. I just hit level 95 and am getting my avoidance up to 96.. wouldn't have a prayer in there solo and everything's yellow now except the one barbarian at the start. Oh and no earth or armor specs. Still, I'm surprised how fast we go through them but her build's optimized for the area and I've seen her do 1100+ with banish..

    I have to chuckle a little at the clusters of player skeletons. (Yes I've died in there too a couple times now).
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  5. Spinok

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    Does UT solo is easy if you know what are you doing, and have a build with fire or heal spec or both ? - YES.
    Should it be nerfed ? - NO
    Should it have more randomness in it ? YES as in all wave type encounters, IMHO the Rise type Lich should randomly(like once in 3-5 iterations) spawns there at last wave.
    Does Rise lich should have better drop in UT if it will be spawned randomly - YES.
     
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  6. Violette Dyonisys

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    With a bit randomness to keep people on their feet, that would actually be great! And when I think about it, Mac is right in a certain way, pretty much all zones are easy once one person can plow through it, the only difference between a zone like UT and The rise or Tartarus is the running around, but many control points exist the same way, so yeah UT is simply notorious for being so easy in the beginning and that reputation never died, so it is hated on for that reason.
     
  7. Superbitsandbob

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    Nerfing it just seems the easy way out. You could scale the difficulty depending on the amount of people in a group. Maybe have a mechanic that prevents people from just standing in one spot. A random burst of flame from the depths of the earth that insta kills idlers or afkers. Just something to get people involved in the fight.
     
  8. Lars vonDrachental

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    Indeed to battle for your existence is not rewarded but in a real environment this would get you quite some experience. The reason is a basic problem: How should your effort be valued?
    A formula or trivial mechanic would be gamed quite fast. For example if your death would generate some exp based on the monster who killed you…a lot of avatars might jump naked into the mouth of dragons to get some fast experience. :p
    Maybe if there would be a calculation of time the combat took, the damage you have done and similar factors there might be a formula that would be unlikely to be gamed and would still offer some rewards if you fail…but I fear the general gain in the current system would be too minor to justify the needed dev working hours.

    The values are maybe not right as it depends on your chosen skills but let’s say:
    The first 60 lvl you are getting nearly nothing of interest out of enemies you loot. Rarely grey bags or to NPCs sold items of other avatars are there already the highlights…basically just crap. Also the gold income is quite low so not much you can buy aside of your daily needs…but no problem as you still have enough to do and nearly everything is a challenge.

    At lvl 60-100 you loot is slightly better with e.g. some additional yellow and rarely blue bags mixed into your loot. The income of gold has raised to the point that you do not live from hand to mouth anymore and have the possibility to buy once in a while something interesting but you are caught between two stools. If you did not finished the normal side quests in novia they are already quite trivial but you are still not able to adequate enter the big challenges novia has to offer.

    I guess at lvl 100+ your loot is getting more and more valuable as you are getting bags that can drop good artifacts, deeds and addon store items. You get enough gold to pay your living and have enough left to safe up and pay ridiculous sums for items other avatars have bought, found or crafted. Sadly there is not much left that feels like a challenge to you.

    Now you are asking for new interesting content but for whom?
    All that might be interesting for UT-grinder will be unconquerable for the non-UT-grinders and interesting content for the non-UT-grinder would be trivial for the UT-grinders. ;)
     
  9. Superbitsandbob

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    I'm not sure exactly what the scene tier to AL level comparison is but something like Tartarus could be interesting. It has a mix of mobs at different levels and while it needs a lot of work, scenes can be created to accommodate a number of level ranges. I think scaling is the answer. I'd happily visit any tier scene if I can scale it up to make it challenging for me and it would make all of the unused zones useful. They would still need to do something interesting with the scenes though rather than just a clone with mobs spread around.

    I'm not asking for content for the top 1% but I think from AL 70-80 and scale up from there is needed. There are so many unused low level scenes that could be revamped.
     
  10. Paladin Michael

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    USING a skill, like it was simple done in UO, could be rewarded, as I tried to describe above depending on Adv.lvl and Tier of enemy ...

    The use of a skill, simple like in UO, could be rewarded, as I have tried above to describe depending on Adv.lvl and level of the enemy ...
    I do not think it would be so complicated to calculate ;)
     
  11. Fenrus MacRath

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    Steevo, weird little social experiments aside, If you want to have the big XP gains while actually challenging yourself and your party, Try the control point in Brightbone Pass. The loot has been nerfed all to hell, (Thanks Mac), but the XP is solid and its fast paced and challenging. In an hour , we are able to pull down about 3.2 Million XP with an 8 man group. The XP is so decent, that you attenuate after about 30 minutes or so and then still continue to gain at a diminished rae for about another 30 minutes. After the hour though, the gains are really minimal, so its not worth the time. This is infinitely better than me flying around UT killing all the mobs with my bow, while other people check soccer scores.. LOL
     
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  12. Fenrus MacRath

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    As long as those 4 alts all have their Darkstarr Destroyers out, No one needs to actually be present, except when its time to loot.
     
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  13. Fenrus MacRath

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    I can solo attenuate in UT after about 2 1/2 rounds, when i am with another guy, we can get it by the end of the 2nd round. He is a fire mage and I am an archer, so we kill a lot faster with the AOE. The thought of doing 3 or 4 rounds of the UT with a full party, just makes me sad.
     
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  14. Fenrus MacRath

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    When I was at SOTACON last oct, I talked with @Chris about this and suggested that sometimes a super Red Lich spawn in UT on a random table, just to keep things interesting. He said he loved the idea, but that was almost a year ago and no super red lich...8(
     
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  15. Mac2

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    Are you talking about the chests that used to spawn? That was not me, that was all the people that used to come to the scene and just loot the chests while we did superstition canyon CP.
     
  16. Fenrus MacRath

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    Nah, I was just playing. It wasnt just your group. The loot there used to be amazing but groups like yours showed the points could be held and the riches farmed.
     
  17. eli

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    It's hilarious to see so many people miss an obvious point because they chose to get defensive.

    I think defensive kneejerk may actually be the dominant opinion of the remaining players, which could explain something about the game direction.
     
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  18. D'Weasel

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    That would be a blast to have a super appear every once in a while!
     
  19. Fenrus MacRath

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    I know! Think about it, instead of "tweaking" it to make it less of an exploitable area, maybe make a few changes, such as at a random time during the waves(Not just the last wave) have a barrier close up and block the cave exit. Then a very tough mob can spawn(Like a red Fall Lich or something equally as difficult) and have the cave stay locked until the mini boss is dead or the party wipes. No running away. Win or Die like the new wave battle in Ulfhiem. Just an idea to mix things up a bit.
     
  20. Dark Tidings

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    I was in that party, they all seam the same to me 3 man 8 man w/e. I and several other people (cpl high levels) who were in the party were irritated with our party host. He did advertise as worst ut ever but no run I’m in will end up bad I joined to prove him wrong but it did turn out he was afk for most of it. Several of us made a vow never to group with him again.

    The problem with ut as I see it is you stand in one spot and the mobs march to you, this doesn’t feel like the dungeon crawls I normally like. But I don’t mind ut so much I just wish risky harder content would be more rewarding than the easy stuff like UT .