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What it takes to craft one set of armor.

Discussion in 'Release 29 Feedback Forum' started by Link_of_Hyrule, May 9, 2016.

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  1. Link_of_Hyrule

    Link_of_Hyrule Avatar

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    So I've been wanting a set of Epic Fustian Cloth Armor and I calculated it all out and it's crazy how much of the raw ingredients I need to make it! Now obviously the system was never meant to have one person do each step of the process but even so it seems like a lot even with multiple people working on it. I feel like the Spools of fustian thread recipe could just be streamlined to just include the cotton and extra wax instead of spools of cotton thread. If you want to have a recipe to convert spools of cotton thread of fustian thread that's ok but I think having a recipe like (6) Wax (6) Cotton and (2) Suet would be fine because it's almost the same but without extra steps. If this was the recipe it would still require over 300 raw cotton for the entire set.

     
  2. GreyMouser Skye

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    Nearly 2/3rds of the way to a full epic supple set of leather.... all by myself. It takes a lot of time, yes, and I am not sure I will finish because what is really the point. I think I've tested the time it takes, so if we need a data point on this I have it. :)
     
  3. Link_of_Hyrule

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    Sure it's possible to do but it would take hours to gather all the materials you needed by yourself.
     
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  4. Weins201

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    And this falls into the, "I want it now", not even 2 weeks after a whip and players want a full suit of armor of the highest most affective quality.

    Sorry but this is on par and there are players out there who already actually have made most of the pieces they need / want, which IMO is actually a farce.

    2x Exp and Training are going to just plain out crush players after the "final wipe". This should actually take even longer to achieve what players want.

    People are also complaining that they broke their item when they tried to enchant it - AWSOME.

    I hope they make it so that is takes actually longer to make these items and just as hard if not harder to triple enchanted items :)

    And it should take weeks / months to achieve a whole suit by yourself :) not hours / days.
     
  5. Link_of_Hyrule

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    I don't know that I agree that it should take weeks or months maybe one month if you are personally gathering all the materials yourself but even that most people would have a hard time keeping interest. I do agree there should be an amount of hardness in doing so. Also, once the final wipe is over I imagine we'll see a huge change in crafting and the economy not because of what the devs do but because a ton of people will actually start doing the various different parts of it. Ideally, one person should not be making an entire set of armor themselves each part of the process would be completed by a different person first one person would gather the raw materials, then one person would refine them, possibly a second person would refine it further since there are basically two steps in refining this specific set, then another person would actually make the armor, after that the last person would perform steps such as gem socketing and enchanting. So this whole process would take a long time I imagine but right now this simply is not happening because no one wants to spend the time to make something that's just going to be wiped.
     
  6. runicpaine

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    I agree longer is better.... however I'd also like to see more grades of quality... which i'm hoping even higher end gear is on the horizon.
    To reference UO: Store bought, Exeptional, GM, Ruin, Might, Force, Power, Vanq, Silver.... Ghoul's Touch, Dragons Breath, fortified, indestructible, defense, protection, invul, accruate, exceedingly accurate.. and so on and so on.
    For those that played old school UO... I mean REAL old school. We remember spending weeks in vendor trash and low quality crafted gear. In those days it might be a few months or more before you ever equip your first GM quality item. By that time you were probably starting to fight hard enough foes to discover mid level magic gear. GM Magery took about a year. After a year you're probably collecting and stockpiling invul and vanq items.... because you know you'll lose em left and right. Nothing like taking your full set of invul armor and vanq weapon for a test run and being face rolled by a full guild of PKs who taunt and laugh at your corpse...... sure it was frustrating.... but seeing those Corp Por spams on the edge of your screen as you turn tail to run, was quite the adrenaline rush.... if you were lucky and had ICQ up you might get a message out to your guildies in time to turn the tides and spend the next hour dividing up those PKs plundered goods. Large packs were more confident and banked/housed their loot less often.

    The point is. Currently we have store bought, crafted, slightly better crafted, and the random unreliable crit crafted.....
    With several unused ingredients floating around it does however seem like more levels of gear can be expected. I assume Fustian Cloth, and Meteoric Iron one day will be considered your throw away gear that you just buy sets of at a time.... at least I hope that's what we'll see.

    I do hope shields and armor skills in general get some serious attention though. In the skill tree, combos, passive bonuses, etc. Right now I don't see the value of shield which is a shame because I'd really really love to make a lifesteal tank, but by the time you load up your deck with all the defense abilities you need to make yourself more of a tank than just any Joe who throws on a set of plate and shield... there's not much room left for anything fun in the build. Maybe if there were more offensive + defense combos. 6 slots dedicated to nothing but defense won't be such a waste when you can combo shield bash with death touch to stun and enemy and drain life at the same time, Or combine shield wall with a HoT or AoE HoT for a paladin type aura effect.
     
  7. Damian Killingsworth

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    so this is why ill be testing what its like to play through with starter armor till final wipe :D
     
  8. SmokerKGB

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    I'm NOT in favor of anything going "Poof" just because you tried to enchant it, that's the thing I hated most about UO crafting, to get so far and then "Poof" it's all gone for not, totally rediculous, IMO... If it's happening now, I would consider it "Bugged", take more fuel, let me fail, but for heavens sake don't destroy the item(s)... Totally mindless design... How can we ever have any chance of building anything if at any stage, it's all gone, the repair/wear factors should be plenty to out date items... Gathering materials is slow enough, without taking it all away in a single sweep... OMG, it just rials me to no end...

    I've already exp the trials of gathering cotton to combine with other more rare drops (sued & carpace) to make special threads, it's IS a long haul, but doable, I like the outcome, but only now am I able to enchant and see posts about things going "Poof", it's all for not, how could they do such a thing? A horrible thing... Gold isn't the problem, I have lots of gold ore and didn't know what to do with it, but the rumors I'm hearing are bad, really bad...
     
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  9. Wodin Folkvardr

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    In my opinion we "need" items to go "poof" if we want crafting to be a viable playstyle. The thing is instead of everyone making their own armor the idea is for crafters to endure that gathering burden and then adventures pay for the items to be created/upgraded.

    Lets make a theoretical world - Lets say we have 500,000 players. That means once 500,000 weapons are created and put into the game there is no longer a need for weapons, everyone has one. The only time a player would ever need to create a new weapon is if player chose to run a different build or try a different combat style. Even if this happens there is still only a finite amount of weapons that could be viably put into the world before the market is completely saturated and there is literally no need for more crafted weapons in SOTA.

    By destroying items it removes this finite cap of equipment so that 2 years down the road there is still a reason for people to craft and gather swords and other gear. I'm not saying I think weapons should be destroyed at a crazy fast rate... just that there needs to be some way for items to be removed from the economy. Realistically look at the real world around you, nothing lasts "forever". If they did then that specific business would not survive. SOTA has stated they are trying to essentially mimic real world economics between players.

    ~Woden
     
  10. Maka

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    If I adventure around in the world and find a beautiful shiney new piece of gear... Then ask someone to enchant it and it goes poof! :eek:

    I'm not paying!
     
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  11. Deiniak

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    How to destroy item...
    I use my sword to fight (Durabilty 100/100) after many fight the sword is broken (Durability 0/100)
    I repair the same sowrd (Durabiltiy 90/90). I use the sword for many fight
    (Durability 0/90)
    I repair the same sword again (Durability 80/80) and this continu untill the sword is no more repairable.

    To resume : Using an item drop the MIN durabilty and repairing the item drop the MAX durabilty. This the item will be completeley usless after many repair.
    No need to destroy the item with the current enchant Lotto. MY super sword +++ will be eventualy broke but after many use not on a random enchant

    P.S. Number are just for example
    P.S.S. A GM blacksmith can re-raise the max durabilty with some sort of receipe, giving Gm Craft some sort of utility
     
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  12. Wodin Folkvardr

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    @Maka

    That situation is completely your choice, enchanting is an option not an obligation. If we went something more in the direction @Deiniak stated then you would be blanketed under a global system which I'm sure would be met with harsh criticism. I'm not arguing really "How" to make items leave the economy, just that they do "need" to be taken out of circulation by some mechanic if we want crafting to have any sort of longevity.

    ~Woden
     
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  13. Smalls

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    I made a set of augmented leather to start, then using that farmed every thing I needed to make Epic supple with Constine bindings and Carpasian straps. Only thing different is full Carp cloth gloves due to epic leather not being in game. I farmed the 9 beetles I needed last night in a 5 hour window. it is doable just takes drive..
     
  14. Maka

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    I completely understand the need to support the player economy. I'm not even going to pretend to have a better idea. :)

    I'm still not paying if you break my shiney!
     
  15. Wodin Folkvardr

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    I understand; and in the current state I think enchanting beyond + is really only for those with extra, not someone who places "value" on gear.

    One thought I had was to borrow an idea of "Fail Stacks" from Black Desert Online. Perhaps a failure of an item results in destroying the item but in turn gives a consumable item that can be used to increase the % chance of the next enchant attempt. This would serve to give better/more reliable (but still lotto) chances of upgrades. Perhaps with this system you could allow "stacks" of the bonus item to get the chance up to 100% success so that you know if you fail 100 times you could collect those materials/buy and have a 100% chance of an enchant.

    Just a though

    ~Woden
     
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  16. agra

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    Sure. Here's a way:
    Have every craftable item desired by NPC's. There. Done.
    Make players a secondary/tertiary market when compared to quests, goals, tasks, plot lines, infrastructure upgrades, maintenance, all those mechanics. Then for every single thing a player makes there is either an NPC or a group of NPC's, or both, that want that item badly. Chairs for your tavern, because there are tavern brawls where the chairs get broken/damaged. Or they just want nicer chairs so they can charge more, but you get a discount.
    Blacksmiths who have a constant need for all armor and weapons because they sell their gear to an NPC warlord who you can support in the war with the kobolds. Or you can sell to the kobolds. Oooo, meaningful choice! ;)
    There are a nigh infinite number of ways to remove items from the economy and drive the economy, without player-equipped gear breakage, at all.
    And all are doable with the tech that Shroud is using, today.

    The really clever bit? You don't even have to reward the player with gold. It can be reputation, buffs, custom skills, or any number of other perks, long term, short term, temporary, permanent, recurring, shareable, whatever. Talk about a time/resource sink!
     
  17. Wodin Folkvardr

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    @agra

    That could definitely be an option; Have you voiced this idea to the devs?

    I think the main concern would end up being how do you place a "value" on these items? SOTA devs have been pushing the idea of "Player driven economy" which would be hard if the player economy was dictated by NPC pricing. For example why sell a chair to a player if an NPC will buy it for 1000g or 1000 rep or whatever (everything has a value on it, gold or not). I'm not shooting down the idea, I'm just asking how do you tie the two systems together and make them feel "good" and play off of each other?

    I'm all for crafted items being absorbed by a "Crafter Questing" system.

    ~Woden
     
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  18. Lazlo

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    I'm fairly neutral on the subject, but I've played a lot of mmorpg that had no gear destruction and can't ever remember getting an item and thinking that I was then set for life for that gear slot.
     
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  19. Wodin Folkvardr

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    I agree there; This game in the "Current State" has a very shallow progression cycle. How many of those mmorpg's that you played also had no levels? I'm thinking the fact that there is no level system to speak of has a lot of impact. What's your thoughts on that?

    ~Woden
     
  20. agra

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    Yes, these and better ideas were all pitched on these forums over 3 years ago. Most if not all innovative mechanics were ignored or dismissed. Mostly for the reasons, at that time, that the ideas were not implementations, that they were thematically/internally inconsistent with their "vision", or that they didn't have enough time to implement them prior to launch. Oh, the hindsight..

    As far as design goals around "Player Driven", it comes down to this: taps vs. sinks. If you have taps (monsters dropping gold) you need to remove that from the economy. If it's more attractive to sell to NPC's, that's perfectly fine. It achieves the goal. The players selling to NPC's is a "player driven" economy. Without the players, the NPC's wouldn't get their desired articles/items. The players are required.

    Crafting for and selling to other players, exclusively, does not work. It's a broken model. PFO proved that from Jan 1, 2015 to Sept 1, 2015. It had exactly that. An entirely player provided and consumed equipment loop. It failed, spectacularly. It had regional resources. Again, failed, spectacularly. You can login to PFO today and go and check their auction house. It's dead. Barely anyone plays, either. It takes days or weeks to create gear, and it's gone after 20 deaths. Poof. Guess how many people like that system? About 5. Yeah. Five out of the target of 4k subs.

    The problem is, players are here to play. To be entertained. To have fun. Not being able to sell your goods or buy what you want is not fun, nor entertaining. So, make a constant massive huge hulking sink/drain for all that gold, time and resources. Make it so attractive, that players want their balance to be zero gold, because the buffs/perks/effects/reputation effects are all so awesome.

    Put another way, it's all carrot and no stick. Drown the player in carrots. :)
     
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