Why is that...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stundorn, Jul 17, 2018.

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  1. Dhanas

    Dhanas Avatar

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    Let's make an example, Sara Draygon is a pure warrior with sword skill 140. If he hit me my hp run down so fast, cause his high dmg, indeed it happened that he killed me. In the same way happened that I killed him too, because I used cc/blink, like a mage should do. So strategy won vs skill lvl 140.

    @Sara Dreygon Sorry for taking you as example, I extimate you as a good pvper, either than your high skills.
     
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  2. Bambino

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    The amount of XP it takes is irrelevant. The fact is that people can, will, and some already have achieved this. I will never PvP in a game where you can grind to get better at PvP; even after hitting a reasonable threshold.

    @Violette Dyonisys: He is one of the top-pvpers - no doubt, but that doesn't mean he is a know it all. It's obvious. Like it is obvious that you do not PvP at all.

    I was a top-pvper for quite sometime as well. I stopped playing completely when the never ending leveling system was implemented. I only recently came back to check things out recently. And, yes, I have PvPed a lot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
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  3. Antrax Artek

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    Exactly, this proves that you don't need to bring a skill to 140 to do good damage, but simply work on your attunement leveling up other skills of that school or taking specialization.

    Indeed with 186 attunement the damage bonus from 100 to 120 is far away from 40-80, but is a poor 5-7.
    The game design is based on the diminishing returns, and it was designed on purpose in this way to avoid the fact that players with skills higher than 100 win hands down against players with skills level 100.
    SotA is based on soft caps, leveling and putting xp in skills over level 100 doesn't give unlimited power and the impact of damage is minimal and not comparable to what you can get training, testing, practicing and building good decks and builds.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
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  4. Sara Dreygon

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    150 blades ;)
     
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  5. Milca

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    Role-playing is by its nature a self restricting act. If you don't like that the game allows you to do so, why do you build your character so you can jump into any role? If you do that, you are the one that's Anti-Role-Playing, not Port.

    To give you a little bit of a context, I am not a role-player, and even I don't go learn every skills. So why would you go out of your way to anti-role-play?
     
  6. Uncle Ben

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    Well Antrax may not know it all but he is CURRENTLY one of the top pvp players, therefore his experience/knowledge is certainly more informative when compared to out of date data and poorly constructed theory crafting.
     
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  7. Bambino

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    @Uncle Ben: Read before you criticize. "I only recently came back to check things out recently. And, yes, I have PvPed a lot."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2018
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  8. Uncle Ben

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    Some of the information here are common sense even for PVE players.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2018
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  9. Violet Ronso

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    Our comments are not only pointed at you, but at Stundorn also, and you say that you "have PvPed", how long ago was that? If it was recent, when have you experienced a deficit fighting against someone? Someone else pointed out fighting against Sara who has a 150 bladed combat skill, said that toe to toe he was at a disadvantage, but if he used his other forces (CC and distance as a mage) he was able to win the fights. You cant get anymore Player skill beats character level than that. Have you tried PvPing in Opalis ruins, where skills over 80 have absolutely no point? Stundorn keeps on complaining, and you have jumped on his boat, about something where a clear solution is present, and instead of saying that having more leveled pvp zones could be interesting, the subject changes until you can come back to saying higher skill levels make you feel at a disadvantage. Instead of trying to make the core concept of the game change, why not suggest reasonable solutions that dont ruin the party for everyone else, such as PvP leveled zones and PvP specific balances (hey make any pvp dmg/healing 30% less effective, that will hurt higher levels the most, closing the gap even more, without needing to hurt PvEers!)
     
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  10. Bambino

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    If you have no interest in even trying to PvP, much less practice, then why are you chiming in on the conversation blaming me for making insinuations when you are doing just that?

    Since I've already gone over this, I'm just going to quote from here: A Retrospect into the Dumbing Down of PvP

    "I know lvl 90s can kill 120s, and lvl 80s have killed lvl 100s. It happens. I've done it myself. However, this is besides the point, and, I agree, some players are highly skilled. The fact remains that players can grind for grueling hours on end to obtain extremely high levels and this results in them hitting harder, and being more effective."

    "The R55 negative attunement changes were a start, but it needs to be flattened out even further, and there needs to be a similar pass taken on positive attunement, combat skills, and resist. These changes should be made to PvP alone. Let people that like to kill monsters, kill monsters all day. Let people that like to kill people, kill people."
     
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  11. Ravicus Domdred

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    Get In MY BELLY!
    I think its ok to challenge the core elements. Why not? Its not like there are hundreds of people trying to RP or PVP in shroud. It needs to be attuned to a larger audience, instead of slowly bleeding of us existing players. Why are people afraid to question what they perceive is wrong, and add solutions to what they think is right? Individuals are just that, individuals. No one thinks the same or see's things the same way. So instead of attacking the people posting their ideas, attack the arguments. If you cannot do that then why even reply to the thread. So many times I see: Oh, stunborn is posting again and people just flood the thread with diatribe instead of discussing his idea, or flat out bashing him and his idea. If you do not have something to add to the argument then just stay out of it.
     
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  12. Violet Ronso

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    When did I say I had no interest in PvP? I have actually started PvPing recently, so why is my opinion less important than anyone elses? Also I havent made insinuations, I have asked questions. And for the last part, great! I havent seen that, you have a link for that quote? IMO it is great news, still doesn't make my point invalid, so I still don't see why you dont want to see me participate in this conversation.
     
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  13. Bambino

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    @Violette Dyonisys: You questioned my PvP participation when I made it apparent in both this thread and the prior thread concerning this issue that you also participated in. You are clearly making insinuations. To be fair, you never clarified your interest in PvP, but you did make it seem that way by continuously hitting me with those awkward questions. All of which were apparent or already answered.

    All you have to do is read the R55 patch notes. If I am not mistaken, there was another pass, or bug squashed, with attunement this release.

    Make what point valid? No issue with you participating in the conversation, I just question you "chiming in on the conversation blaming me for making insinuations."
     
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  14. redfish

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    Just to personally vouch for @Bambino , I played with him from time to time in pre-release, he was one of the big PvPers like he says...
     
  15. Stundorn

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    You need to read all.
    To me PvP is important for RP.
    Without branching out in all magic trees for example you would loose in pvp for sure because if resistancies and although they talk a lot about playerskill here and that it's not neccessary to have high skills in pvp i dont believe them, because in my experience the most min max progress players have long lost a sense for what it is about what makes them strong. The way skills effect you in many ways, how hin is your HP, Focus, Str, Int, Dex etc... And how high your crits are is mostly forgotten when some say i just have 50 GM not 150 or 200 and my base xy skill is 140 or even 150 etc.
    All these Details...

    By the way this Thread is about
    Why is that the majority of this forum plays or better works after the effort =reward Formula.

    And with that said, because it's so important, the effort to become a GM is very much softened or lifted up.
    Isnt it when at the same time they day you can make a GM in an hour or become level 80+ on a Weekend.
     
  16. Stundorn

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    They hate me because i criticise the game they dont want to fail.
    What they dont see is i criticise as a casual RPvP player and also dont want SotA to fail but to become more casual friendly and more balanced for all playstyles not only grind loving min max players who play 10+ hrs a day.
    To just get more players that dont exhaust on grind or loosing their role.
    I dont want to soften the game.
    I am not for themepark features like fast traveling for example, but for more sandbox and interdependencies within players ,more diversity and variance of builds etc... and for more roleplay in the sense of playing 1 Role and not 10.
    It's not against Decksystem or Combat, Glyphs etc. I like that, what i dont like is to have to branch out that much and have a neverending leveling process what may gives you only diminishing returns, but still returns you boni and advantages .
    Self Restrictions for any RP purpose are bad. So i need to stop self restrictions on myself if i want the possibility to carry the RP over into a pvp/ duel Situation or just want to be able to fight of other players while exploring Ruins and Sha4dfalls, but exactly that caused that i lost identification with my build Role and it wanted me to become something i didnt want.
    I hadn't touched any fire,death, Sun and Earth skill, but without this i'm absolutely weak and just a onehit .
    I allways heard: " i dont use magic, but of course i have all my magic at 100 for innates, stats and resistancies."
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  17. Milca

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    You only need to read 1 thing. Role-playing is by its nature a self-restricting act. If you want to RP, self-restrict. Don't restrict others.

    Unless you act out a scene of conflict before every PvP fight, this statement makes no logical sense...

    That's because Effort = Rewards anywhere, anytime, any situation period. This shouldn't even be a discussion.
    If you need me to explain further, no effort = no reward.
    I sincerely hope you can understand this, otherwise, you are not only going to have a hard time in the game, but also in life.

    Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  18. Bambino

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    In real life we have ceilings. Your body has a threshold as to how muscle mass you can pile on. Most jobs have a set salary or a maximum amount of hours that you can work per week. In SotA, you can grind XP all day, every day, but there is not a reasonable threshold. You can master every profession in the game. Not to mention, leveling down every magic tree is a base requirement if you want decent resistance. There is no hard cap, and the soft cap is extremely high. Comparing this game to real life is no comparison.
     
  19. Milca

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    Are you saying my statement is valid or invalid?
     
  20. Bambino

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    Read the OP to understand where @Stundorn is coming from when he made the statement you commented on. Then re-ask yourself that question.
     
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