Virtuous PvP

You are absolutely right about the whole concept sounding easier than it can be possibly applied. Rewards are enticing, indeed, but they must not be something that could be table-turning, so to speak. Some others, like Owain believe the rewards themselves beat the purpose of the Virtues in the game. I can understand that to be perfectly honest. My hope is for a middle ground to surface through the discussion.

Well he was referring to PK and the "thrill of the hunt". Your hunt and looting, on the other hand, isnt about the thrill as you mention in your post.

 

Everyone has their own motivations, and I am not nearly narcissistic enough to figure that my motivations should be everyone's motivations. I'll play my game, and let others play their game.

 

And when the player is back on the field less than 4 minutes later, after you take their stuff, like UO? I'm not seeing the tactical value.

There are so many better innovative solutions than this historically demonstrated & logically flawed mechanic. I really hope Portalarium learns from the past mistakes of other games.

 

Take it from him again until his tactical stash is depleted. I've done this any number of times. It takes patience, but it is effective, and the KGB has won multiple guild wars doing this exact same thing.

By innovative, if you mean some of the cumbersome kludges I've seen suggested here in the forums, yeah, there are a lot of ideas floating around, and in my opinion, they all suck.

The good thing about Full Loot is its logical simplicity. Kill a player, take his stuff. Repeat as necessary. Simple and effective, at least in my long experience.

 

Do you know how you can tell the effectiveness of full loot? By the contrived arguments from people who don't want their stuff taken.

 

I'm perfectly happy to have my stuff taken, if there are compensating consumption mechanisms in place so the economy isn't destroyed by the mechanic. And I'm perfectly happy to take stuff from others, as well, if the same conditions are true.

I've played games with full loot. I've taken full loot from hundreds of players, in those games. I've also had all my loot taken by other players, in the same games. That's how I've seen the social and economic damage it causes first hand. I'm not posting from a perspective of ignorance.

It is provable, purely from a logical flow perspective, there are better ways to accomplish loftier goals than kill and steal. That some don't like them isn't relative to the ideas and implementation being logically sound.

The 'contrived arguments' of others, many of them, have merit in attracting a larger demographic. I trust the developers will consider these vastly superior solutions versus kill and steal, when the time comes to design player conflict mechanics, for SotA.

 

If it is provable, then prove it. Just saying it doesn't make it so.

 

If I remember correctly Sacrifice was around Ren and LBR. It was in the LBR Bradygames strategy guide. I still have that thing in storage somewhere lol.

Justice was around in AOS for sure. It also doubled in champ spawns. If you had Justice you could put someone in a champ spawn under "protected status" via the gump menu. If they made it through the spawn then you also got a copy of the same powerscroll they received depending on your Justice level. You could have several people there to guard it and still reap the rewards. Usually chars who were fully designated for PVP.

I'm wanting to say compassion was there in LBR but my memory on that one is unsure. Compassion was great for rezzing in dangerous areas. Being rezzed with 80% health was always a plus.

Valor has been there for ages. You could actually activate a champ spawn if it was idle and at max level bump it up by 2 red skulls if I remember correctly. It was very usefull doing tougher ones like Oaks

Honesty was added post ML I think.

 

I would agree with Seon. RP pvp can be much harder than Regular hunt and kill pvp. With the rule sets set you are limited on gear and void of advantages. It is truly a skill based pvp environment. The wars may be planned but the victors are not. I hope that many guilds that are pvp based have role play involved. It adds so much to the game environment and most of the time everyone enjoys it, and are left with no hard feelings.

 

Sorry, you already baited me once this week and ignored every logical development in my explanation post.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
If anyone else would like to know, though, by all means, start a private conversation and I'll elaborate at length. I don't want to divert the thread any more than has already been done.

 

Ah, but effectiveness at WHAT, Owain? I'd say that full loot will be very effective in reducing the number of players taking part in that game mode. Wanna put some money on it, big guy?

 

You guys need to get together to get your stories straight. On one hand, vjek says this:

According to him, full loot is marginally effective. It's almost not even a bother at all!

But on the other hand MalakBrightpalm says this:

Malak thinks full loot is Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

You guys can't have it have it both ways. It can't both be marginally effective while at the same time a sign of the apocalypse.

What did I say before? Ah, yes.

 

Owain, full loot is not fire and brimstone. Its just that only a portion of potential players will like it. If what MalakBrightpalm had said in his post were false, full loot would have been the default mechanism in all games by now. Thats not the case. Also, the tactical value of looting someone comes down to zero when he can either craft more gear himself or get gear from his friends. And eventually he will bring bigger group with him (perhaps even bigger than yours) which might or might not turn the tids.
On the other hand what a PvP Virtue system would do is work like a deterrent in bad attitude by rewarding the virtuous player. An anti-virtuous player would still act as he wanted, but he would be at a slight disadvantage against a fully virtuous one.

Notice that a PvP virtue system is on a separate level than the open PvP or full loot mechanisms. It can be applied even on top of them, meaning that PvP virtues dont necessarily cancel out an implementation of full loot or open PvP, but rather add more depth and purpose to PvP. To my eyes that would mean more people will be enticed to try PvP than if they had known there is only gankage and looting.

 

Wouldn't full looting actually stimulate the economy rather than damage it? More goods changing hands an all that? I'm pretty sure that's why restock vendors existed in other full loot games like Ultima Online. It does seem like it's tied to crafting.

Also I don't buy that full looting would cause too much social damage, since those that you claim would be driven away probably would not consent to playing in this mode in the first place.

 

Actually the thing isnt to drive away those who would not PvP, but rather entice them to participate. An Open PvP game without many PvP players is rather useless.

 

Oh, Owain, I'm SO disappointed! You have no better response than a pathetic hatchet job with no special effects? I mean, you could at least have edited the words INSIDE the quotes if you were going to put words in my mouth!

Here, I'll show you. You totally wouldn't say this, but I can make it look like you did.

See? If you're gonna lie to everyone and mischaracterize my position, at least do a better JOB.

I never said I thought full loot would be the apocalypse! I just stated that it would drive many players away from the game or game mode that includes it. No fire from heaven, just a sudden and palpable reduction in the population. Almost like voting by emigration. Try to keep things in proportion.

 

And here I thought you'd appreciate the quote from Ghostbusters. I guess some people just have no sense of humor they are aware of (That's a paraphrase from Men in Black, by the way. For some people, you just have to spell out the obvious).

 

One group of pixels temporarily transforming another group of pixels is serious business........no laughing matter

 

Why would having quoted it from a movie make it more appropriate? These forums were INTENDED to be a free exchange of ideas meant to help build up the game, we all PAID for the right to be here under the assumption that our input could contribute.

Why would ANY form of mockery be of value?

 

Well, it is useful to know who are the humorless scolds.