I don't get all the concerns about Open PvP

It was something along the lines that gear that was picked up as loot would in fact be some crafted gear (with someones name on it).

 

Ah yea, correct.

 

Wrong, open PvP did not work for YOUR guild. You cannot make the statement that it did not work, I have provided clearly illustrated examples where it has:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowclan

Invisible barriers diminish the ability to roleplay. It is more difficult to create a satisfying roleplaying experience in a game where artifical barriers exist. In games such as Dungeons and Dragons roleplaying is one of, if not the only, reason the game exists to this day. Your anecdotal evidence does not suffice for the claim that open PvP impacts roleplaying.

Furthermore, I will make the claim that Ultima Online was more successful in some regards than Everquest. Recently, I received an invitation to go back and play Everquest. I did and the game is unplayable, there simply are not enough players left. However, the community in Ultima Online still exists and is quite vibrant to this day. I will also remind you that the game is over 16 years old.

 

UO is still alive because it is a diverse open world where as a player I can avoid such types which maybe should seek professional help. I don't want to spend my weekend to achieve a personal goal to have some ultra grinded no lifer player trash all my effort in seconds. No role play, just wrong time in the same place with someone with a mental disorder.

 

selective multi-player should help give us all the game style we want.

 

IMO Trammel made people solo more,and behave more retarded than PKs!!
Uou could take your 2 dragons and all kill a entire dungeon and be jerk about it ganking all mobs ,even Ones that other ppl were killing.... Just take over spaws.... At will

Imo Thats evil and deserves punishment... Since we in wonderland i cant do sh** about it....
This lame tamer was interfering with my gameplay as much as pks or worst Since i could do nothing to prevent that.... At least with pks you Can fight Back or simply recall

 

Open world PvP does indeed create a rich world for roleplaying. It's why there was great debate whether to move our guild to Trammel when it opened up. Unfortunately, from an RP view, open world PvP also creates a world full of psychopathic killers.

Perhaps you should re-read my post and reply to what I DID say.

 

The issue here is that selective multi-player does not give the in game bullies their victims. So it has a potential to please all, except those.
(Edited)

 

Actually selectiv multiplayer please all as long as its a full open pvp world for the Ones that want it ! I want to be able to kill a tamer spaming all kill !!! ... At least try to !
I

 

The type of people you refer to will simply not flag themselves for PvP and you would never see them.

 

Right. And without victims, Karma based PvP doesn't really happen. You either have all wolves and no sheep or a bunch of tanky players standing around gate-hopping or otherwise waiting for someone to flag.

So to combat this, guild/faction PvP really becomes the driving force.

 

I just wanted to mention that one of the early hangouts LB was very much for open PvP with a "safe path" for people that wanted to play the game for the story line. His team was extremely verbally closed minded in the hangout to this idea. So the only thing you could blame LB for is if he listened to his team which seems to want to cookie stamp out another 'optional pvp' game which has been done to death as you point out. Another 'optional PvP' game would take this from the path they declared they would take it... "the spiritual successor to the Ultima series." I'm just hoping he keeps true to that vision. That he doesn't kill it being a spiritual successor and end up making it a copy of previous games.

I agree with you over all though... after the story line is beaten... as a resource gatherer and crafter... will I really have to switch to non-pvp and just gather and kick around to compete in the economy cause that is where all the other gatherers and crafters will be.

So I'm concerned my choices will be PvP mode and no be able to compete as a gatherer and crafter; OR no PvP to compete as gather and crafter but not get the interactive battles; the other storylines brought on by other players. That would suck.

 

Thank you for your rant; I am sure others feel much the same about this project.

I was there in the beginning of UO as well, on Sonoma. As you probably remember Sonoma was the home of many of UO's most active creators of mayhem and mirth. As far as the original release of UO; I agree that those times, in so many ways, were the ones that I remember and cherish most. But I am not going to wax nostalgic about that single unique period of time in UO's infancy, everything changed and it did so because it was its own natural evolution. (Proof that our Nostalgia suffers from memory loss) There is no going back to those times of discovery and exploration in a hostile and dangerous world; at least not like we experienced. What there is, is a chance to be involved in a new world built from the inherited DNA of its ancestors.

As the offspring of that world so many have lived, laughed, died, died again, then again, then jumped on IRC and got their crew online, then killed that guy, got bored because the PK logged off and started killing anyone they could find for fun; it could not be in better hands.

I have taken a good long look at the development team and have even worked with one of them. I have rarely ever seen a project staff so perfect to the task at hand. I know that many people have beef with Lord British and the early days of UO and Origin; some people I know had good personal reasons to be done with Lord British's BS back then. He was for a fact, arrogant, selfish and surprisingly disrespectful to many of the players that made his world work. I have no doubt that that he has learned from his mistakes; I know this because I know myself and people like me who have worked creating the impossible out of nothing. We do it because we are driven to create. We learn the hard way because we there is no other way to make an idea into a virtual universe to be populated by unknowable variables of interaction brought by the people it is being made for. It is very like becoming a parent, you hope you have made the right decisions, you do your best and **** happens anyway. Sometimes your kids resent you for all your effort, or maybe they love you and go on to create a family and be live a life that makes the world a little tiny bit better. They could also become assholes and just **** on everything; but as long as you really tried and you know your giving it your all, you did everything you can.


Luckily for us this is not an entire lifetime at stake , it is a game; so lets play.

 

I think if things work out with the little info we have, I'm pretty sure you will be able to play your way through guild PvP ... the question to be answered is "how many PvP members per guild"; and what would place you in conflict that would encourage fighting beyond just for the sake of fighting AND are in the same area to actually fight.

just my two cents

 

Then its a better world for me !

All kill = no skill

 

Your so called proof is not proof. It is a complaint against player killers by a few people over e-mails. The fact is, Ultima Online had less players in those early days. However, so did EVERY single other game. MMORPG's were in their infancy (other than MUD's). The population growth that came about could have been for a number of reasons. Some people claim it was Trammel, however I think it has more to do with people becoming more aware of MMO's and getting more involved in gaming in general. Correlation does not mean causation.

Ultima Online provided risk and reward and every game since then, with the exception of DAY Z (I know, it doesn't count but it kind of does...), has done the exact same thing. I am not just nostalgic about Ultima Online, I am convinced it a better model to create video games. This is especially true today when every game follows the same, predictable pattern and end up as clones. Shroud of the Avatar is capable of capturing a rather large niche part of the market. I want this game to be successful and I want to relive the days of yore, in which RG had faith in the players to make their own decisions without big brother's help.

I don't know, nor do I care if Richard Garriot was arrogant. That is irrelevant to making a good game apparently as the success of Ultima has shown (with the exception of Ultima IX.) RG is an ambitious man and had a vision for his game, which he brought to life through Akalbeth and Ultima. These games are classics and essential to the entire RPG genre. Perhaps his team didn't agree with his vision, I don't know. This is speculation because I don't know him personally, but I was a huge fan of the early Ultimas and Ultima Online.

 

Those who made the early UO not agreeable are responsible for no one else touching that same approach again. As much of a success UO and MMO's in general were, the open PvP in UO was such a failure that no developer has since dared to even touch it. That should tell you something.

 

JUST A NOTE:

Any other Ultima game ( i Played some of them not just UO) we had a thing named "free will" if i wanted to atack one of my companions like Dupre, shamino or iolo i could , sometimes others atacked me in defense of their friend being atacked !!! I could even kill them all .....

Not having a open free will world were people Can do has they please is totaly against what ultima stands for !
Im 35 i Played ultima martian Dreams and savage empíre with 13/14 years... Then u7 and u7 s.isle also Played u8 and bit of umderworlda but my favs were u7 black gate and martian Dreams ...

All those games were open world and unlike other games i Played só far i could really be good and bad ... I could bake bread with water flour and a owen and sell it for gold or i could enter a jewlery and kill the jewler and grab his gems...

Only after UO came out i was like 18 when i got it ..... As i was a fan i fell in love with it !!!!!
Plain rude and free for all i could even rip some Ones head off and store it in my backpack !!!!!

What i mean is ... Those who want a safe heaven to mine, lumberjack or tame dont have a clue about what ultima (not UO only) stood for ...
All i wish is LB stays to its roots...

 

It tells me that Everquest was released and since it was successful everyone has followed the same model. That is it, nothing more. Ultima Online was not a "failure" and that is an asinine statement. The game is still played today and set a precedent for MMO's. That is far from a failure.

 

After playing pretty much every MMO under the sun after playing for UO for almost a decade. Nothing has been the same after UO tho even tho all I did was PvE things I am still in 100% favor of the loot system and Open PvP. DarkFall attempted to recreate UO in my feeling. What they did to mess it up was not even putting in a law system. Which is really what is needed for these type of sandbox pvp games. You NEED some kind of law in place besides other players like in life, its the reward vs benefit. Killing players hence can be big loot and easy prey should come at a great cost.

I loved all of the PvE and PvP aspects of UO so if they were to recreate it and went into it with what looks like a decent looking group can expand upon it and bring something new back to the MMO scene. Just as long as they dont go for that cookie cutter everyone else is doing it problem. Because I would rather have a small nich inde game with a great community rather than the fly by night group. So with SotA and EQ coming back around again I have large hopes for this genre.