info about pvp

You keep going round in circles ignoring what anyone says to you. This seems to be not going anywhere.

You will have full open pvp for those that want to play it, which you seem to think everyone wants to so you should have plenty of people to play with.

It's not fear that pushes away people from pvp, its frustration of dealing with situations that arise from it. Much like this coversation.

 

Ita not full open pvp please look up the definition. What have i ignored? And how do u know i ignored it? I read it and dont see what more you expect out of it. Couldnt be much different than you ignoring any number of points i bring up. And yeah if u expect me to change my opinion then its not going anywhere. Do u expect me to change my mind. You do t like pvp because of what mght arise from it? Such as? Losing nothing but a few minutes of time? Like ive said u can have ffa pvp and still protect from greifing but from what i gather u are t against just griefing but pvp as a whole. In that case no matter how many good ideas that will work for pvp and pve ppl you will be against it since it seems u just despise pvping. You can have it and prevent griefing seeinghow thats what most ppl are against i dont see why its continually ignored. Its likely because even with a perfect idea that would work there would be those that refuse to give it any kind of chance because pf the fact the despise pvpers period no matter how much or little it affects you but seemingly how much it affects me doesnt matter so it is just more of the same one sided street talking to a brick wall that refuses to compromise but why should yu since you already got everything you asked for

 

punctuation is our friend!

 

Its not my intention to insult anyone i find it humorous but i do know not all people have the same sense of humor but you can control what you take offense to and life is too short to go around being angry. I just wish it wasnt such a double standard with this game and that ppl would t discriminate against pvpers just because they dont like our chosen playstyle when we do no such thing. If one takes offense to me trying to understand why everyone hates pvp that is their decision

If i seem to be going in circles its only in response to you guys goig in circles by briging up the same discredited arguments that i keep countering everytime they are brought up. Im not going to bring up a different response to the same argument being brought up.

Id be more than happy to talk about other things such as solutions

 

I think the reason for card combat has more to do with cheats than anything else. If a player knows with certainty the results of their actions, then they can automate those actions.

 

Agreed on automation - but I'm sure you'll agree that well-timed interrupts or other distracting skills or positioning completely shuts down and destroys the macroing players. Skill is superior to macros.

 

It's only made irrelevant in the sense that you are prevented from ruining the game for me. If the only way you can bear to play is by ruining the game for others, then I believe you are not a kind of player that should be ever welcomed in the game anyway.

Correction: when PvP players can force others to engage or flee it makes PvE irrelevant, because PvP is now dominant. PvE becomes merely what is done in the absence of PvE, and PvP always overrides PvE. The playstyle you defend is anathema to players that dislike non-consensual PvP like myself.

You will never see me engaging in non-consensual PvP anyway, regardless of how the game ends up; if I don't have access to all the PvE content while completely protected from PvP I will simply stick to playing offline.

(Well, actually there would be a way to get me to accept non-consensual PvP; by completely removing the death penalty. With this setup I would simply suicide myself when attacked, rez, and keep playing as if nothing had happened, like I did in WoW. I think you would find this worse than the current proposal, though.)

Little test to see which is the intruding playstyle: if there were two games, one where everyone with your playstyle played and one where everyone with my playstyle played, which playstyle would survive and which would be destroyed?

In other words, yours — in the specific way you want, by forcing everyone else into PvP — is a parasitic playstyle that can only survive by destroying the fun of other players, while mine is a playstyle that stands on it's own. Guess which is more sustainable from a business perspective.

1. It depends on the definition of griefing.
2. My issue is not the griefing per see, but the non-consensual PvP itself. It doesn't matter if I win or lose the fight, just being attacked by another player when I'm not in the mood ruins my play session.

Wrong. You get to play your preferred style, the game just prevents you from dragging unwilling players into it. As long as you are not intent on ruining the game for others, you will be set.

From a business point of view?

1. PK activity was the #1 reason given by UO players to unsubscribe.
2. PvE players tend to be more numerous anyway. Unless the game is created from the ground up to attract PvP players — which is the case of EVE, but not of SotA — it's a very bad idea to drive away the PvE players.
3. Only a minority of PvPers seem intent on forcing non-consensual PvP on everyone. Most seem content with the consensual nature of PvP, and are arguing other details like the loot mechanics. So going ahead with PvP being by consent only will drive away the minimum possible amount of players.
4. PvP being by consent only was one of the few hard promises since the KS. Going back on it would taint the company's image.

Do I care about having PvPers playing the same game? No. Not at all.

Do I care about PvPers being able to drag me into PvP, or to deny me access to part of the PvE content unless I engage in PvP? Yes, to the point I'm not going to even play the game if that happens.

Simple as that. I admit freely that I won't accept PvP players forcing me to engage them, and that this is non-negotiable; either I'm not subject to non-consensual PvP, or else I won't play. There is no middle ground, no compromise possible on this specific point apart from the one I mentioned above.

The main one I know is "Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds, Spades: Players who suit MUDs". It references quite a few other papers and books, BTW.

Also, the Portalarium devs know it first hand:

 

No. The only way im prevented is not just ruining your game. You should be so lucky if i cared enough to do so. But i dont. Its not ruining your game, its you ruining my game currently and sehow thats okay. This is exactly what i mean u constantly ignore the fact that griefing can be prevented so how exactly am i ruining your game if your not being griefed. By the mere precense of pvpers?

Sorry maybe i should clarify i met eviddence that is relevant. Ie within this century. Nobody plays text based games anymore and with graphics come a whole new mentality

You erroneously assume pvpers would prevent you from pveing. Well what about you preventing me from my gameplay of choice. Ts ok for you to exclude me from my style but not vice versa?

So its okay to drive them away cause they aret as numerous? From a buisness standpoint as you argue it would behoove them to not drive anyone away which is why i argue for pvp mechanics that disallow griefing

Pk actvitu might habe been the reason people quit but it was also the only mmo to play so by now pvpers have chileld out and the novelty of ganking is worn off. If all u have to go by are outdated stats the. Why not invent some modern ones by giving it a try. If it doesnt work they can turn it off and the pvers who left come back. When pvpers leave because of inflexible rules that descriminate they are gone for good

It does more han prevent me from dragging people into something they dont want it prevents people from exercising choice to play as an evil murderer and murdering doesnt mean griefing. So no i cannot play how i want. What if theres a birdge tax i want to impose. Cant do it. What if i want to avenge my woman? Cant do it. List is endless

Justbecause someone MIGHT do something that MAY upset you is not a reason to exclude me from eVERY type of gameplay i wish to enjoy

This method is akin to painting with a broom

And it doesnt prevent me from ruining you game. Trust me if someone wants to ruin your experience no gameplay mechansim can stop it. Thats why its a boon to have ffa pvp cause yu can just kill these players that try to ruin your gameplay rather than give them a nice cushion to abuse mechanics

 

How can they automate them? Bots are against the rules and i thoght the could be detected. As it is a one time purchase imo it doesnt really matter if they bot or not since likely most people will quit when the best the game since there isnt any endgame. I hate cheaters but using a crap combat system seems like a long way to go to prevent it when things can be done to catch them and isnt as important as a traditional mmo where people pay regularly for integrity of service. Look at ea once u buy their games they dont care what happens afterwards and rarely patch anything other than rosters

 

Consent is not what is making PvP irrelevant. I think players should have a choice.

PvP is a completely different aspect of the game that cannot have anything unique or different outside of PvP, because buying items off a vendor somehow violates this right to consent.

It sounds like they are thinking of allowing PvP items that are relevant outside of PvP. I hope they do, because as long as we all share the same economy, unique items do not effect the choice to participate.

I think the goal all along was to entice but not to force. That's where PvP could become irrelevant...if spending gets too confused with forcing.

 

I honestly have no idea what mmjarec is arguing any more. He seems to think that him attacking you when you have no interest is fine and doesn't ruin your game. Seems as long as it's ok by him we all should accept it.


There will be no non consensual PVP period. They have said it over and over.


Now, for unique items useable outside PVP? I don't care really...it just better not mean ALL the good items come out of PVP.

 

Fight the good fight brother!

 

Hey as I was reading this I saw something about items but I couldn't find it again to quote it. I think having good items is a good thing not a bad thing. Having massively epic items that augment all of your stats like WoW or what UO became in the later years is bad, and I don't think they are going to go that way with items.

However my biggest point about items and skills is the PvP specific items and skills. I recognize that we need to have special items, but the ones that have PvP specific skills and attributes actually takes away from PvP in my opinion.

• PvP specific skills that can only be leveled up by actively participating in PvP, makes it difficult for new players that have mastered the PvE portion of the game to then become a PvPers. PvP should involve some kind of player finesse that comes though experience in PvP. So long time PvPers should have an advantage over new pvpers anyway. Now imagine that these guys not only have finesse but they've built up all kinds of skills and have PvP specific item bonuses. So people new to PvP will be at a huge disadvantage, even if items aren't overpowered. (Player skill + character items and skill)

Now if there is no finesse portion to PvP (because we just stand next to eachother and click cards that pop up), then maybe the PvP items and skills won't be that huge of an advantage... I'm really hoping there is at least some finesse to PvP.

For example UO a 2x gm sword fighter could start PvPing quite effectively eventhough they only masterd the sword skill and possibly tactics while still training up the other skills. That's how I did it. I was a member of an order guild, and had macing and tactics GMed. After about a month I remembered fighting a person who must have had a power, or vanquishing sword of some kind, but they didn't know how to move effectively enough and he lost that item "to me" (along with all of his other stuff). However if I gained extra PvP skills then the combat may have even been easier for me since I already had a month worth of PvP experience and that guy was obviously new to it.

So finesse in PvP comes through PvP experience, at least that's what we are hoping when us old UO players ask that this not be an item focused game. In games where items are the focus the finesse is completely ruled out.

NOTE: FYI -- I switched to a Chaos Guild as soon as possible.

 

What I want is parity. The items obtained through PvE and PvP don't need to be identical, but they should be similar enough in quality that someone that doesn't want to PvP doesn't feel forced to engage in it (and the opposite should also be true; a PvP player should not feel forced to engage in PvE content due to better rewards, having the best items for PvP require engaging in PvE is IMHO as big an error as forcing PvE players into PvP).

 

Yes, I do like the devs current thinking on this, where all PvP equipment is essentially non-PvP equipment with special enhancements garnered from PvP engagements.

Beyond that, provided vendors are free to sell that specialty equipment to anyone, gaining access to it should not actually require engaging in PvP at all.

 

yeah if there is to be PvP equipment it should be the same equipment used in PvE. That way people wont' have to have multiple sets of gear, (one for PvP and one for PvE)... that's one of the most immersion breaking things I could think of.

I think the PvP item enhancements being added to standard weapons was a reasonable fix for the PvP equipment idea. Same with the idea of having a third skill set (having to level PvP skills separately from the other skills). If we had to use our standard adventuring skills for PvP skills then the PvPers would have less skillpoints to allocate to PvE skills than a non-pvper. That basically forces a character into being PvP only and another character to be PvE only. That was a terrible idea I'm glad they came up with a third skill set for leveling the PvP skills.

However I think we should be able to go without either PvP specific skills, and pvp items.

 

Are you no longer my brother, Isaiah? I guess I need to lament that Owain is virtuous no longer. Things suddenly suck a little less. If I can fight off the temptation of being chaotic myself I will enjoy having you as an opponent! <3

sent from the future using my Coleco Adam

 

chaos doesn't have to be evil. Chaos to me is freedom. I don't like all the laws rules and regulations that tell people how to live and think. Free thinking, free living. you can still do good while being free to be you.

 

The sigil is not of death like skull & bones but one that speaks of being able to choose rather than to be ruled