info about pvp

Calling me a horse and hopeless is not exactly a way to have a meaningful discussion, is it? Don't forget to report my post to the moderators. I heard they favour your folk and will probably delete the post or something. Like they usually do when I piss them off. )

You could not possibly be more wrong.
Roleplaying, just like any other thing has basically two parts its made of.
First is the idea. Second is the technical part.
The technical part should be forced on anyone. Breaking weapons. Skills. Spells. Riding horses. Feeding horses. Taming horses. Brewing potions. Sitting on a chair while waiting for the gang to gather. All those things make even the dumbest 13 year old pvper be a part of the Roleplaying experience.
UO was good because the technical part of immersion was forced on everyone. Everyone had to feed their pet. To put on their clothes. To dye their robes and bandanas and pants the way they liked it, because hey, why not? Such things are extreemely important to the rp experience. Remove the interactive from the world - and you got RP on the level of WoW rp. There are people who RP in wow..I imagine how horrible it must be.
Interactive environment makes immersion. Immersion makes RPing. It so happens that full pvp and full loot are very large and important parts of immersion. Without them, immersion is not full. Which leads us to a game of WoW, shallow and dull, being all about grinding the +100 sword and pretending to be drinking ale with your RP-comrades because the game doesnt even support chairs, sitting on chairs, has no ale and no way to put ale on the table even if there was ale.

So...does anybody has anything lenghtly to say to my post or are you just going to talk about dead horses?

P.S. Some people here argue that interactive environment filled with danger and risk does not contribute to RPing. They could probably RP in Tetris Online, cause hey - environment doesnt matter, right? You are what you pretend to be! So if you are a cube in Tetris Online and say you are a knight, you can have a round table with your fellows. Cause only what's in your head matters, ya?
I really find it hard to find words for people who were never a part of a real online adventure. Nobody knows there names. Probably some 80lvl char number 1000010004000000 who's deeds were never of any significance because the only thing he probably did was grinding dungeons and pretending to RP instead of living the adventure.

People across several shards know my name and to this day they love, fear, like or hate me. Because I was part of something real. In those worlds, I WAS ALIVE.
And who were you, (not specifically any of you)? Orc Shaman number 1004050500000 who was no different than other orc shamans cause gear is the same and the only thing that made him unique was his name, which was probably not something like Grulk the Merciless but more like Joe335 or LoLOwnedU1996.

 

100% agree.
I don't craft and never will, I'd like for people who want to do it to have a workable and fun system, but I'm not going to give advice or make demands.

That's how it should be, if you are not into it, stay out of it.

 

I agree completely, in theory...

Except what happened in UO is that while you had some subset of technical demands of immersion forced on people, it wasn't full-proof, and the people who weren't interested in role-playing used the holes in the game model to subvert the game. And the result was that UO was a completely anti-immersive.

Examples,

* People roaming around killing innocent people for no reason at all, simply because they were bored and because they had nothing better to do with their lives, and the consequences didn't matter much. Meanwhile, amidst the anarchy the cities were nice and tranquil. (Btw, dry looting wouldn't make sense in reality, and would take a lot of time on the part of the looter)
* A bunch of ugly houses built one foot away from each other, where vendors stood on the roofs all day and all night, in rain and sun, hawking warez.
* People dumped their stuff in the city streets and nobody cared about it.
* House camping, under the idea that houses magically fall apart when some known time is expired.
* Player vendors selling magic portals to wherever they wanted to go.
* Many people having several dragons following them around in cities like little puppies that they bought from the mall.
* People using l33t speak and gang names.
* Gate in. Vendor bank guards. Gate out.

In practice, UO was far less immersive than the single-player Ultima games.

 

BillRoy, TemplarAssassin and the rest of "The Hole in the Wall Gang";

It almost brings a tear to my eye when I see my friends growing fangs. But I do agree with you, but I do say we haven't seen that scene we can play on yet. But I also say that we need this SotA Movie scene to play out a bit more through it's evolutions to becoming a game before we find our settling place.

I do believe it's true, that the day of the duel or individual PK, or the flamboyance of that scene may be something that needs quite a bit of developing for the true gunfighter characters to become any reality here. But it does take development and that will take a bit of participation on our part for our Portalarium to shows us the way there.

Soon there will be such a time "that will come" yet that may not be something the individual could appreciate until the rest becomes more hashed out.
I do believe the collective needs their blood bath first before we can see anything better than what we sadly have. But remembering that this is alpha and we can't just jump right in seems our frustration.
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/who-will-be-waging-our-first-pvp-war.9707/

I don't post much on the PvP forums because I haven't seen the light of day yet.
"But I do believe that it's a comin'... but keep up the good fight here because when I read you both, I find have nothing more to add...
Your Heart Felt Brother in Blood,
~Time Lord~

 

Im still here and im a PVPr, my voice may not be heard but my vengeance will be felt across the board when the game starts! Isaiah made alot of good points, so if you claiming that PVP people are not making compromises think again, we are willing to meet you halfway! You people that have all you want should really should listen to what is being said, and stop jumping to judgement, just because you yourself may not be a PVPr.
blaquerogue - Merc Inc. (yes i did use colors) I like colored letters!

 

Lol I'm pretty sure your voice is heard

 

It would be awesome if they could provide a game play like this. Well, actually, they can and they can provide players that do not enjoy some of the aspects of this model a method to opt out.

 

THIS IS FOR EVERYBODY IN THIS THREAD!

Well look this will not ever happen in sota, and it has nothin to do with the topic of this thread. There will be no chance for a non-pvper to ever have to PvP ever.

I never said in the original post anything in regard to forcing people to PvP. This will never be an issue with SotA. This is where every PVP thread gets derailed. One and only 1 guy will say "Heck why ain't we allowed to attack anybody we want?" Then 100 PvE people come into the thread and totally derail the topic saying all you PvP people want is to kill innocents. STOP IT!

Then for the next 5 PvP oriented threads NOBODY will ask for non-consentual PvP, but a PvE player will still bring up the topic saying "Shucks there was a sucker in the other thread who wants to attack anybody... see that's what all PvPers want..."

There will be no non-consentual PvP in SotA so kill that topic please! It's off the topic of this thread. I know because I've read this thread and I also started it.

 

Any time, any place.

 

I plan on playing some of the PVP zones that there will be there, so I will comment on PVP if I like...do I care what is done in the PVP flag mode? No. However, when someone so graciously tells uswe should play in FPO or SPO instead of OPO then I do have a bit of an issue with it.

 

you are so far off my list its not even funny! but i will accept the challenge! Then we go find the people on our lists!

 

A fine duo we shall make

 

and the people on my list! God its so long.

 

Both of you guys are on my list for a fun battle royale! It would be great to have an all out brawl with some of my favorite people on the forum. Now that I've finally found my character, the eyerolling at 3devious is no more! Now ganker and ******** alike shall tremble with fear at Caska DiFumarate! (Well maybe until the first weapon is swung anyway!)

I have long lists and so many categories of lists, I'm keeping track of everyone in a database! The game probably won't officially start for me until a month after launch while I work my way through my lists and rezing due to my position on everyone else's lists works itself out. Once equilibrium is found I'll be like "right, this game is about stuff... I remember now!"

 

What I learned out of roleplaying for a couple decades, mainly through pen and paper RPGs, is quite a bit different.

While the technical part should be a requirement, it should only include what makes sense for the story that is being told. It's why most RPG books I've read in the past include something to the effect that all rules are optional, and it's the role of the game master to break, bend, or rewrite them as needed to move the story along and keep everyone having fun.

In a sense it's similar to how books, and other kinds of entertainment, deal with the details. When well done, they present and reinforce the details that will strengthen the story, create a better experience, while glossing over anything that doesn't really make a difference.

As a simple example, take travel. Have you ever read a book, watched a movie, or played an RPG game where uneventful travel was portrayed in full? You likely haven't, simply because uneventful travel, even though realistic and making up for the vast majority of travel time in the real world, makes for a boring experience, something people don't expect from their entertainment.

The same can be said about many other things. For example, RPGs based on the Storyteller and Storytelling rules system, and even some based on the D20 rules, don't use precise control over money, using a gross approximation instead; most RPG systems simply assume that characters are doing whatever they need to keep themselves and their pets and mounts healthy and in good spirits, not requiring that players re-enact that; equipment maintenance is assumed to happen "out of screen," and unless the story calls for gear failure to be an issue it's simply assumed to not happen; and so on.

This simplification, this distancing from realism, actually increases immersion when correctly done. This happens because the systems being glossed over aren't actually important choices, but just boring drudgery, things that are not actual choices. Anything that no person in his right mind, with the correct information to make the choice in hand, would do differently is not meaningful, and thus can be dispensed with. Doing away with the meaningless allows the game to spend more time with the content, the actions, that actually matter, that can better draw the player into the game world and immerse him.

(somewhat off-topic, but this is one of the reasons I like the dual scale map, BTW; it's one of the few ways to gloss over the uneventful part of travel while keeping the eventful part, which means keeping the immersion and the fun while doing away with the boredom. In contrast, conventional fast travel throw away the exciting together with the boring, while conventional slow travel in a single scale map will be even worse due to having much more time spent in boredom than in interesting gameplay.)

Non-consensual PvP is another issue. I don't believe in non-consensual roleplay; in my experience, it's almost always just people desiring to have fun at the expense of another, people that don't care if they utterly ruin another person's day just to get a kick. I will never support non-consensual roleplay in any shape or way; anyone that attempts it in any group I run — both for pen and paper RPGs and computer RPGs — will be kicked out, and if I'm not running the group, I will give the group a choice of keeping either me or the other player.

Also, WoW actually has functional chairs and a wide selection of alcoholic beverages, including screen effects to simulate drunkenness and a whole festival in October dedicated to them

Actually, much of the best roleplaying I've ever seen online was done in chat rooms and forums. No game, no fixed rules, just people talking and pretending. And when properly done it can be magical, much better than random PvPer #314159265359 attacking everyone in sight.

If you need to attack others and make them fear you to be of any notice then you know very little, if anything at all, about roleplay.

 

Man what a long post. I should remember to read it later...

Templar only has a death list. But it is a long one! Templar will probably need a band of like-minded individuals if he wants to hunt down all the people on the list before he grows a grey beard. People with iron will, stone hearts and love for murder!

 

Actually, I think that's not true. There is NO size of community that cannot be glad to lose a member who is a detriment. If there are two people on an island, and one of them is a raging psychopath who worships a nonexistant diety of human sacrifice and pain, the other, a dude from Texas who just wants to be rescued, can be glad when the psychopath takes a little too much sea urchin venom in his morning drug routine and croaks.

A lot of references have been made to the PvP proponents who left, but each of them left of their own free will, after driving themselves into a frothing rage because their small cadre of voices were failing to utterly dominate SotA development. Personally I think most of them were children, they certainly acted like it. I've seen several decisions come that I really don't like, and I've said so (card combat anyone?), but I'm still here, talking about the proposed systems, putting forward my ideas in the hope of bettering the game, and WAITING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS. The people who stormed out really only guaranteed one thing: their voices are no longer influencing development.

I just cannot get behind worshiping their old posts, where they called everyone who didn't agree with them names and accused us of moral and intellectual failings for not wanting this game to be what THEY wanted it to be. I think they were WRONG. And, since I've never once claimed to be a nice person, I am openly glad that they left. I celebrate the anti-social fringe of this society excising itself. If they come tip-toeing back in with more moderate voices later, I'll welcome em back. If they do the equivalent of spray-paint tagging their hate on the finished product, I'll support permaban.

 

I thought you rage-quit a couple of weeks ago! Took your ball and ran off to Archage or some other crumby game.

Either way I doubt that there will be any changes to the current PvP model until it has been tested extensively. Either you guys can continue to complain about something that has not even taken place yet or you can wait until we test it and then provide valuable input that might actually help create a better experience for EVERYONE.

 

Pvp is an important aspect in any game, so I was wondering what type of pvp system would you like to see in sota?

 

I see some of that. And I'm ok with a flagging system as I'm confidant that I'll be skilled enough to kill people without having to pick on the sheep. Would I prefer a full open world, yes? Would I prefer full looting? Yes. I'm also willing to compromise. Which is why it irritates me to no end when people who say they will never PvP complain about a suggestion of a 2% drop rate. That means you have to die 50 times to mathematically lose that piece of your best gear you just HAVE TO use for whatever reason... If you are dieing that often, you're most likely just griefing yourself anyways...