In regards to the "distracting" nature of the deck system:

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Strumshot, May 11, 2015.

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  1. Fionwyn Wyldemane

    Fionwyn Wyldemane Avatar

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    I appreciate your concern for my ability to enjoy a game based on the *hot bars*. ;)

    However, based on what you say, it does seem that you want to enjoy this game (perhaps any game?) the way you always have, ie, have a hot bar you don't have to think about.

    Ok..so in this game, *lock* yours and be done with it?

    For some people (like myself), gaming isn't about twitch play. It isn't about combat except as a means to an end, ie, a way to earn coin to finance our true passions. Decorating...crafting...role-play...making music...performing poetry...none of those things need a combat hotbar. None of those things need any kind of *muscle memory* or instant reflexes where *seconds count!*. None of those things require us to control two dozen hotkeys in order to kill kill kill!

    Even if I could experience the game the way you or others do, then it would no longer be MY experience. And that is the whole enchilada right there of why I love the SoTA combat system - I get to experience combat in a way that is MY way. I am free of the trinity of Tank, DPS, Healz and I will shout *hallelujah* for that! I am free of the static skill rotation and for that I will yell *amen!* No other game I can think of except for the pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies has ever allowed me to build a character skill set the way I want. I don't have to do combat the way you or a million others do it. That makes me rejoice...lol. :D

    If someday the devs decide to revamp the combat system, I'll deal with that when I get there. For now, I will say it once again - we can agree to disagree on combat. Combat-centric, twitch games are a dime a dozen which is why I am HERE not in one of those games. This game is so much more than a hotbar.

    Peace!

    Fionwyn Wyldemane
    Pax et Veritas
     
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  2. Strumshot

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    Fionwyn, how then would you feel about my proposal?
     
  3. Fionwyn Wyldemane

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    I have trouble visualizing it, but I read over the suggestion again and it seems like it might be a nice compromise. :)

    What I am gathering though, from this thread and other threads where people rail against the combat system like it's the end of the world as we know it, is that for the people who don't like the system, there is little room for compromise. I mean, how much more compromise does there really need to be when you can lock the deck, have it random, or a combination of both (which is my preference)?

    In any case, I give you props for at least proposing something that addresses the issue, rather than rambling on about how combat in this game sucks and the game is doomed to fail if it isn't fixed, yada yada. You put a lot of thought and heart into it and that is something I can respect!

    Peace!

    Fionwyn Wyldemane
    Pax et Veritas
     
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  4. Aetrion

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    The problem is that locked bars are so much weaker than dynamic decks that it's really not an option unless you want to severely gimp yourself currently. If the abilities were equally strong however there would be no way that anyone with a dynamic deck would be able to compete with someone who's running locked bars purely based on the overwhelming advantage in input speed and precision that locked decks would have.

    Locked deck users are currently limited by an artificial ceiling imposed by making their decks significantly weaker than dynamic ones. The game is currently balancing the limitations of the dynamic input method with hard mechanical restrictions. This keeps it being fun for people who like to push their own ability to the limit, because they hit a ceiling the game imposes on them instead of being allowed to reach their full potential.

    The problem is that people who have a lot of experience with MMOs recognize how self defeating this duality is. If the dynamic deck system exists to give people who don't have high twitch skills and aren't MMO natives a fighting chance then it will always have to be artificially boosted to be half way on par with locked decks. If locked decks are allowed to reach their full potential then dynamic decks are so much weaker that they really serve no purpose.
    Nobody likes being trapped under an artificial ceiling, so to those of us who don't enjoy playing with a system that either limits our potential or our immersion there just doesn't seem to be a favorable solution that doesn't make dynamic decks obsolete for competitive play either way.
     
  5. tekkamansoul

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    As far as revising our current combat system, I think we need to go back to talking about auto-stacking and auto-comboing, and NOT throw ideas related to them away outright.

    This seems to be the real issue. Your eyes are removed from the main screen to focus on your hotbar mostly when doing these things. The process doesn't have to be fully automated, but it should be much, much easier and intuitive.

    The game should not be played for you, but take this into consideration:
    -When playing a card game, you generally sort your hand in such a way that makes it easy for you to pair cards and see what you have available. This option does not exist in SotA, it's like you are forced to draw cards into your hand in the same order they came from your deck. Without knowing what hotkey your skill is, you take a half-second extra to look at your hotbar to 'search' for it.
    -When playing a card game, reorganizing your hand is never part of gameplay. Cards that are the same to one another make sense to be held next to each other in your hand. Stacking glyphs in SotA should be automatic, because there is absolutely no reason for it not to be. This is not simulating anything from real life. You can't excuse this mechanic as "organizing your thoughts" in mid-combat. This is a metagaming activity, this is done by the player ONLY because the game doesn't do it for us. As @Strumshot and many others have suggested, simply stacking them visually, but still permitting the user to activate them individually is the right way to go here.
    -Combos need to be rethought. Combos are a great idea, but the way they are activated is very, very unintuitive. If you activate Thrust after Flame Fist, it should just turn into Flaming Shiv. You shouldn't need to "reorganize your hand" to do so. If activation isn't automatic, then the shortcut process needs to be shortened. You're hitting a series of number keys to activate a combo, that is the "input". Tapping 2-4 should simply attempt to activate a combo using the glyphs in slots 2 and 4. An additional input ("r") is unnecessary and extraneous, unless there is going to be very powerful 3-card skills, in which case a seperate "group glyph" key would be useful; but then you run into the problem of organizing the glyphs on-screen in such a way that it is obvious you are forming a combo with those cards, such as highlight them and moving them up and out, rather than the irritatingly simple green outline.

    Thanks everyone for staying focused on the topic at hand.
     
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  6. Gypsy Lou

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    @Duchess: No one is "railing against the combat system as if it's the end of the world". I think that's a bit overly dramatic. The last time I checked, this was a forum, intended for people to speak out on ideas and concerns, particularly inasmuch as we are the backers of the game and have been explicitly solicited for this input. What you are experiencing, what makes you "chuckle", is not people wanting the game to be the way THEY want it and no other, it's simply a voluminous series of statements by dedicated players that the combat system is not *fun*, for them. Not that it is "too unlike what we want and expect", that is not the point of the discussion. Of course there will be people who enjoy the current system, and there will be people who don't, but who pretend they do in order to present a contrarian view, it's all ok, it's all good. It's just discussion, nothing more, nothing less. It's what we are supposed to be doing with these feedback forums.

    Innovation is a wonderful thing, I wholly endorse the desire to avoid the "same old same old". The trick, however, is to add innovation in ways that solve classic problems in combat and are fun to play. For some people it has worked. For many others (it's hard to tell how many but it's a significant percentage if not a majority), it has not worked. Let me give an example of hot bar innovation that actually worked really well in another application.

    In most Windows or Mac applications, there is a toolbar that has commonly used commands. Standard stuff. There was an app in 90's that did something different. It created a standard toolbar, but it was infinitely modifiable in that every single command you performed had an icon associated with it and if you used any command, the icon for that command would show up at the end of the toolbar so that if you wanted that command on your toolbar, you just dragged it over and put it on. In this way, the toolbar would evolve throughout your usage of the program to be just exactly what you wanted it to be. Simple innovation, but powerful and it made the whole concept infinitely more usable and fun to use. This was back in 1994, and I am still amazed that no one has ever duplicated it.

    That's the kind of thing that illustrates how you can turn the "same old same old" into something better by innovating. Simply taking a concept out of another genre (Collectible Card Games, like Magic: the Gathering) and adding the random deck concept to combat feels actually more derivative than innovative. I applaud the audacity of hope that inspired it, but I also remind the developers that they told us "if it turns out not to be fun" that they would "probably try other options". Well, you've already acknowledged the number of threads on this topic, I think it's pretty clear that enough people are unhappy with it that a reasonable person would think that it's time to at least talk to us about it and start considering other options.

    If the developers ignore this growing and palpable concern and march on toward release because it's too much work to change it now, then I submit THAT is the best illustration of more of the "same old same old".
     
  7. Umbrae

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    So I wanted to post since I just started playing with a non-locked deck last night; However, this was after I collected my Fez which it part of my personal no-combat Hat collecting quest. :) I think I somehow setup a locked deck and never got around to setting anything different up: unless they start you with a locked deck and I was just too lazy to go into the deck builder. Anyway, I personally did not find the UI any more distracting than any other UIs in my game repertoire. I do agree it could use some refining especially related to Combos like @tekkamansoul mentioned above.

    I understand people's complaints who prefer muscle memory. However, I think we are confusing Action RPGs with traditional RPGs. Action RPGs are twitch based games where Player Skill is mostly related to activating the controls. However, a traditional RPG is about the Character and not the Player. Player Skill is more around developing the character (choosing skills, attributes and in this case Decks) and not so much around the character's direct actions. Your characters actions are based on your characters skills and not the skills of how quickly the player can execute a command. In SOTA the card delivery is an abstraction of your character's ability to focus during combat. This is why you may have the equipment or skills, but not be able to - as a player - execute those moves on demand.

    I understand people don't like this style of play, but it is something done most of the time in traditional RPGs in one fashion or another. Using standard mechanics like dice and saving throws and what not, may give you more of a feeling of being in control; however, I don't think this is really any different than those mechanics. Because of this many will see the competitive nature of PVP diminished since one can lose do to bad card delivery and deck design and not because of their personal player prowess. These types of differences can also be seen in sports games as well since some like action based twitch games and others prefer more tactical (pick players, select plays, run the season) type games. Many can enjoy both - even competitive players - but they are fundamentally different play styles that not all will enjoy.

    Anyway, I think this is more of the push an pull from the community over which style SOTA should adhere too. Not saying that the UI as-is is perfect, but I think this overall style of combat is much more interesting and dynamic than muscle memory, pavlov feed-bell style combat. I understand why some may not prefer this, but the current system is spot on with the concept described before the end of the Kickstarter and I hope they continue to refine it rather than drop it. I think the locked glyph option is a good compromise for those that don't want the hassle. It does come with some benefits (muscle memory/quick response) and with some short comings (no combos, requires development of specific innate skills, etc.).
     
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  8. TantX

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    The only thing Chris ever talks about in relation to card combat is that there will never be auto-stacking or auto-comboing. It's the only thing he's definitively, repeatedly said on the subject matter, the multiple times it gets brought up and he actually responds to it. Personally, I understand why: if you start auto-stacking and auto-comboing, then much of the whole point of the system is lost. It does take a lot of the twitch out of card combat, in that regard, which I think a lot of backers want (less reliance on twitch to win the day), but it also dilutes the system.

    At that point, why have cards at all if they auto-stack and you just click a button to stack and nuke someone or button-mash (something people accuse other games of being) a single hotkey to quickly rapid-fire touch spells or thrusts or whatever?

    While it addresses some of the hotbar issues, you're still watching the hotbar to see what you have to press to throw a Thrust or a Gust or whatever else. As I've said elsewhere, suggestions like this make it easier, but not easy; better, but not good. It'd help, yes, but will it help enough? I know I still wouldn't play it because it still doesn't fully address the issues at hand, just makes it easier to deal with.

    And, personally, I don't play games to "deal with" them.


    I agree. Comboing is becoming more common in MMOs, and they're doing them just fine elsewhere. I personally liked ArcheAge's combo system, and it offered a lot of crossover between classes. But it still doesn't address the fact that combos need to be pertinent to the situation. If you can set up two decks, one that maximizes DPS, nukes and mezzes, and one that relies on tactical glyphs (push/pull mechanics, for example) and combos, you'll always end up with the first deck. Why? The second deck requires far too much RNG to be useful. Combos are great if they're available, but if you can't rely on them, then go with what you can: chaining stacking glyphs between stuns. The first deck will always have glyphs meaningful to combat, whereas the second will not. In a system where you're basically just adjusting odds, you're going to min-max those chances during deck building.

    Some key points that were either design choices or as pros that the community sees the deck system as having or both are:

    1. To curb botting through random input;

    2. To curb min-maxing by making multiple templates meaningful as well as random inputs to keep each battle "different";

    3. To be different and not just the standard hotbar to avoid button-mashing/rotations; and

    4. To be less twitch and more strategy for the demographic interested.

    I'd argue a fifth was the fact that this was originally planned to be a mobile device or at least cross-platform, where dexterity on a tablet or phone could make sliding and dragging much more efficient and interesting.

    Having said that, botting happens. I doubt this system will change that. If anything, being how unreliable it is, I imagine if this game somehow does get enough players to warrant someone botting, the card system would be a pretty good incentive to make macros or apps to auto-pilot some of this.

    Min-maxing is just another word for efficiency in video games. The problem is, not all skills are created equally, and they never have been. Some skills have to be "wingmen" after all. As Freeman mentioned here or elsewhere, if everyone's special, no one's special. There will always be better skills, classes, templates, whatever to use than others. Some playstyles can make different ones work better, but overall, there's going to be a "best". The card system pigeonholes that further by making some skills more accessible and easy to execute than others (ranged will remove a lot of the additional attention required for melee, for example).

    Finally, the dependency on player reaction to moving glyphs, stacking, comboing, discarding and constantly switching from monitoring combat to health bar to combat to hot bar and back again is some of the twitchiest I can imagine. It's like juggling on a unicycle while playing a harmonica. If this system was supposed to make combat slower, less twitchy and more thought provoking, it failed the second it was conceived much less implemented. When you're fighting you're hitting whatever glyphs you can and quickly dragging/discarding cards as they come up. It isn't dependant on the combat itself, outside of "Do I need to heal or can I hit the guy some more, first?" That's button-mashing if I've ever seen it in a MMO.

    So we have to ask, is the card combat system doing what it was designed to do and what its proponents claim it does well? I don't think it does on either front, hence why an alternative is so glaringly necessary for many of us.
     
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  9. Strumshot

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    Well said and thanks for the reply! I would like to point out again that I love the fundamentals of this system, and I suggest only a very subtle shift to just a pinch less hotbar focus, simply because not every character format is designed to just stand there. I find there to be no issue for plate wearing melee, which is why you see so much of it. Ranged needs to be able to strategically maneuver a little bit more, which basically requires a locked deck, which makes the ranged builds that much more difficult to operate. There has to be a very simple adjustment that allows pure casters to use a dynamic deck. Right now I feel it is not an option.
     
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  10. Freeman

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    The more a game takes me, the player, out of the equation, the less interest I have in a game. It's one thing if it makes another part more involving for me. Take the example of Civilization, I'm not managing each unit's sword swing, but in exchange I get to manage the entire army. SotA takes control away from me and offers what exactly in return.

    As an RPG, even a pen-and-paper one, I should be in as much control of my character as the game will allow, and only deviate from that rule when something needs to be abstracted to make the actions desired doable.

    But lets take your concept that it's an abstraction of a character's ability to focus during combat. Presuming we have ANY training in combat there is no way we'd be that out of it. Source? Me. Trained fighter, and most people who fight in real life will tell you the same thing. You instinctively respond to what's happening. If they wanted to create an opportunity system where certain moves become more effective when the opponent does something, I'm all in. That would be interesting.

    But lets, again, make another logical leap and say "OK, fighters get confused some times, maybe even as much as the system is portraying" the reality that I have to fold all this together into a deck or I don't get to use it, even though I know it, doesn't jive with that concept of abstraction. I'd semi-buy the first part if decks weren't a thing. If it was just all your skills in a pile and you were responding to the opportunities as they came up.

    But lets again, say that's not an issue either.

    You're abstracting the fact that people get confused sometimes, and miss opportunities, and don't always do the smart thing. There is zero need to abstract that because there is already a person in the mix doing all those things. It's having you do it, and then simulating that you're even more confused than that.

    For dynamic decks to be something from a role-play stand point to make sense I have to accept that entire pile of things above. And what do I get for it? That it's different than I'm used to? OK... and? Different does not guarantee fun. It doesn't guarantee better.

    Because it affects the locked deck and flavors all of combat, even for the people who aren't using it through the fact that we have to balance for it. So yes, it damages locked decks.

    If you're using it as a defining part of the game, to mark it as NOT wow... then this damaged thing is going to be talked about and will hurt sales as people won't take the time to understand that they don't use it.

    It's not 'End of the World' type stuff, but it is pretty cut and dry. It's bad for PvP and it damages locked bars for those who don't' like it, on top of not making sense for an otherwise very immersive game. It's honestly the most damaged part of this game, and anything else, even if I don't 100% agree, I still think is very good.

    But this will stop people from playing. It already has. I don't think the same will be said for other options that have been presented.
     
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  11. Strumshot

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    As the original suggestion has changed a bit and a drew a picture; and also the conversation easily slips into other realms, I am reposting the original idea in its edited form for complete clarity and an attempt to bring the conversation back. Again, this is assuming the deck system is staying and can work, assuming the issues to solve are the workload for developers and the inability for caster/ranged builds to use dynamic decks. Please keep this in mind and focus your comments as such, and please read the suggestion carefully and comment on it or propose slight changes. Thanks!

    ----

    Through much reading - aside from the younger crowd playing for an hour and responding "this is stupid" - the only true complaint I hear between the lines is that the deck system is too distracting. I can agree. I believe the goals of the system - to be dynamic and decision-based - are spot on; at the expense of being quite cumbersome at times - particularly for ranged/caster builds. The argument against changing it are that it's either back to the good-ol' hotbar system , or to a costly full rewrite; which is cumbersome for the developers. It seems we have a battle of the cumbersomenesseses. (Yes, that's a word.)

    May I propose a compromise that can be addressed solely through UI changes and provide just a dash more maneuverability for ranged players without having to use a wholly locked deck?

    [​IMG]

    Have the deck visually stack: slot a, slot b, slot c... and have the player assign a glyph to a column/slot statically. Thrust in column 1 (hotkey 1), heal in column 4 (hotkey 4). The cards can still deal up at random and redundant cards simply stack underneath, and locked glyphs can still apply (this effect may actually look like a deck as well!) The dealt cards will simply show up only in their appropriate slot. Holding shift or clicking the "stack!" button will combine the top two cards, while not holding shift - or clicking the glyph -just uses the top. Then, whenever a combo is available, a larger, low-alpha combo glyph shows up somewhere over/near the player indicating that a traditionally (dragging) activated combo is available. This will force combos to be still slightly more interactive (user-input heavy) than just hotkeys, but without distracting quite as much. Also a player can learn/arrange their favorite hotkey arrangement, but will still need to keep a slight eye on the bar for availability.


    Currently, when trying to use hotkeys, using 1-0 is just too cumbersome, and pressing r-9-4-4 is WAY too cumbersome. The only alternative for casters seems to be full hotbar focus and all-mouse, which is not o.k., or a wholly locked deck which sacrifices much! I think the sacrifice level is appropriate, but only if a dynamic deck is actually usable.

    I think something like this could be handled ENTIRELY in the UI (plus a few minor logic operations) and make the deck system not only less cumbersome but more intuitive and interactive as well. Thoughts?
     
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  12. Strumshot

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    I'm sure this may get asked a lot, and I realize that I am not Dev+ level backer (I have 4 children and a wife and I'm not a doctor - not going to happen), but any chance we can get a dev to weigh in on this or someone to cross post it in the Dev forum? I was hoping to start a think-tank on this family of ideas, but no real modifications to the idea have been suggested. So maybe I'm a bit biased, but I truly feel that this will improve the largest amount of complaints with the least amount of effort and the least amount of straying from the current method, and would love some true feedback as opposed to feeling like I'm speaking to the air. Thanks!
     
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  13. TantX

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    This is key. If this is an RPG, then it's a role-playing game: I'm playing the role of my character. This isn't a god-game, where I influence my character; I am my character. Hell, even in the lore, I'm my character (and yes, my avatar kept his aviators and travel-size complimentary bottle of Jack in his top pocket). I'm literally controlling myself in this other world. Which leads to...

    This. Wrestler and fencer (saber and rapier), but any sport suffices. If you're thinking about what to do, you didn't practice and train enough. Consciously thinking about how to react gets you beat, whether you're fighting MMA or you're shooting hoops with some friends. Sure, you can evaluate a situation and come up with a strategy, but moment-to-moment decisions are an unconscious series of action and reaction. There is nothing realistic or even an abstraction of realism that this system conveys. It's just pure randomness and chance.

    As Freeman mentioned, we don't need to add abstractions to abstractions to simulations. The simulation is abstract enough. It isn't even about PvP or twitch; it's about control. It won't take long for people to lose gear or break armor or simply lose against a tough (I doubt there will be anything tough, but for argument's sake) mob because of not drawing the right cards or being unable to combos efficiently before they throw their hands in the air like they just don't care. We're already seeing people do it when they're winning, imagine when they're losing. It's hard to get attached to a character that represents you when you can't control... well, you.
     
  14. Fionwyn Wyldemane

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    Could not have said it better myself and boy have I tried! LOL :)

    Peace!

    Fionwyn Wyldemane
    Pax et Veritas
     
  15. TantX

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    Okay, that makes a lot more sense, and even visually (good job on that, by the way, looks pretty good), it is appealing. It handles the random input issue (statically declare which slot is which skill), and at a glance, can see if a skill is available. I'm assuming there will be a way to click a key before hitting 1 to stack all or just hit repeatedly to chain glyphs back-to-back individually. I think it solves some issues with input, for sure, and at a glance works for knowing what's available and where.

    Here's where I'd challenge it with the other issues random decks have, to see how this system can fix the bigger problems:

    1. Random Availability. It still takes control from the player, a major issue people are citing. Just because I can see when it is available, it doesn't change the fact that it isn't available necessarily when I need it. Therefore tactical skills are still inferior to DPS, nuke, AoE and general mez skills, those which you can always use in any situation during combat. How does this system support tactical play?

    2. Locked Hotbar Limitations. It limits the random deck like the locked hotbar (unless you get more hotbars/deckspace somehow). So the pro for the random/hybrid deck is that the hotkeys are random, so you can potentially have 7 different skills cycle through 5 hotbar slots. This way, you only get 10 like a locked hotbar (unless I'm missing something). How can this be addressed (if it needs to be) to fall in line with the selling point of highly customizable characters (yet only able to use a handful of skills in combat)?

    3. Locked Hotbar Balance. The locked hotbar was a concession because people demanded it, and if it's lost altogether, then there will be a huge loss of players and potentials (assuming the locked hotbar gets balanced appropriately going forward). Your system seems like a true "hybrid" of the two, mixing pros and cons of each, but how would the locked hotbar's arbitrary penalties (lack of combos/stacks, cooldowns, focus skill point sink) be balanced with this? Would this system require penalties to balance it?

    4. Chris. He has consistently said auto-stacking won't happen. This sort of idea isn't exactly new, but it's a nice visualization of it. The problem is he is 100% against auto-stacking anything. This system allows glyphs, as they become available, to fall in line, making the micro-management of cards he has set up irrelevant. You have 10 slots and yet potentially 15-20 cards in your hand, queuing up and able to be chained or stacked. How do you present this as necessary to make this work when he is so vehemently against any sort of auto-stacking?


    PS: I also wanted to mention most PvPers, from what I've gathered, don't use their mouse. They use keyboard and numpad to move and execute glyphs. Lots of back-peddling and strafing. I don't think ranged has the same sort of problems that, say, a warrior would have trying to keep up; it's a lot easier to set the tempo than to keep up with it. This same approach can be used easily for the dumb AI our mobs have, as well.
     
  16. Strumshot

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    In terms of auto-stacking issues, I see two options with this system. First of all, the glyphs would only be visually stacked. Also, there would be no button or key for stacking all. The button or key would only equate to one stacking/dragging. For example, of there are three on the stack, the stack operation would have to be performed twice. Second option being that perhaps the is no hotkeys to stack!

    In regards to the locked decks, perhaps it is no longer necessary? It has been mentioned that it has been disensentivised anyway and only implimenting by demand in response to dynamic deck issues. One bar to rule them all!
     
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    BTW, @dewderonomy thanks for that reply! Exactly the sort of conversation I had hoped to provoke, and quite well said!
     
  18. Umbrae

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    @Dewderonomy and @Freeman,

    I understand and respect your positions. RP is a very suggestive and personal thing. However, Role Play by definition is playing a role DIFFERENT than yourself. For example, in NB lore you are you transported somewhere to New Britannia. You are an "avatar" of yourself which is represented by the numbers and stats and how they are translated in that world. So you are still not really you. You are merely a consciousness in another self, and just because you can push a button fast and do something on Earth shouldn't mean your character in the game would do so as well. I would agree if you pumped stats into the proper places to be a close to your Earth self then you should expect to fair equally well, but there is still a translation expressed through the UI. Afterall, I can guarantee I am not able to push a button better or faster than you, but may Avatar might have stats to best you in a certain activity every time. Without a UI translation - cards, dice, etc - I would never be able to play the role I might want too.

    Sorry to get all deep there. No disrespect intended. I just think the more your speed or agility gives you an edge it is closer to a sport than an role playing game. It is not wrong to like either (and I have enjoyed all kinds), but I think that explains the different reactions to the UI.

    I think that is a great compromise between the two systems. However, wouldn't it be possible to have more Glyphs than slots? The random nature allows to have more skills available than there are hot bar slots without adding in multiple hotbars (shift/ctrl/alt).

    I would like it if the cards stayed up longer and triggered on a timer, so you could select one or more (max 3?) glyphs which would fire when it expired. So the row would fill and you would select or highlight a certain number of them which would trigger either a combo or trigger the first action at the end of the turn leaving the other selected items in place for the next round. Of course, I am not sure this would make people that dislike the random card placement any happier, and may even be too turn-based for some people as well.

    Honestly I find the huge glyphs over your head every skill seems to generate far more distracting. Some things don't need a fireworks display. :)
     
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    Assuming this were the system in place, and assuming it completely erased the need for "locked glyphs" and "all locked glyphs," what if then "locked glyphs" were replaced by dynamic glyphs? Your deck slots are static as mentioned above, but you could elect for one, two, three... to be wildcard slots.



     
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    I think you can already do this right, or at least in the opposite direction? You can play an dynamic deck and get a skill to locked slots. I think having to sacrifice skill points to do this is a point of contention, but I think using a skill to do this is a good RP translation (but I won't get back on that ;) ). The more about it I think unless all the glyphs are dynamic popping over cards it is really still little more than a hotbar with cooldowns which is what the locked bar is. Plus you have, or will have based on previous dev discussions, the ability to lock locks and still have some dynamic. Then the full dynamic. All have their pros and cons.

    So what specifically is it about the interface (from which ever mode if closer to your preferred mode/style) that we are trying to improve?

    I think the card cycle to fast and far too little notification before it drops off. Of course, I could just be an old fart. :) I don't mind speed being relative to the level or complexity of the skill action, but I have a hard time getting combo to line up let alone slide them across. If there was a predicable timer to select them it would reduce the popping in and out of card which would cycle together at once at the end of the timer. This might resolve the "distraction" and could work the same with locked and partial locked deck (with locked slots unable to combo and taking priority as a triggered action). However, I would imagine having a timer might be considered a distraction as well. I have found when common and predicable these fall into the background which is similar to the muscle memory of using hotkeys so it doesn't bother me.
     
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