These are all posts about Exp, Skill Gains . .

@Tahru
Are you including yourself in that statement?
If so, please tell me what it is that you don't understand about xp pools. Maybe I can help.

 

That is not what we are saying at all. Being user friendly is not the same as being built for dummies. The truth is that the adv exp bar provide zero utility to the user unless they want to game the system. A normal player just wants to chose skills and level them and build a deck. Focus on that and hide irrelevant information.

 

So you don't disagree with how it works just the ability to see the exp pool?

Sorry but it is not gaming the system, it is allowing understanding and the ability to see if you have points avail to train certain skills.

Gaming the system is using that information and sitting at a Gust ball and using 1 - 10 skills over and over, or using a Red Ferocious Spyder and killing something you should have NO chance at killing but since you can have one of these without ANY taming it is there for use.

 

Ok this thread was about consolidating all the thread in one place to show where there is a problem not about Exp bar if this is a needed discussion please open up another thread, and I ask those debating it to also stop here.

I will stop TY, an sorry

 

@FrostII, that is most kind of you. I get it, it took a while, but I get it. I am speaking in terms of making the game better. Even though I know what the adv exp bar means, it has zero impact on game play because I play the game. There is nothing anyone should do different if the bar goes up or down. 99.9999% of new users will think that is what it takes to increase levels which is misleading.

 

The problem is, without the pool numbers, there's no way to understand why when you use a skill it advances so much slower than someone else. The only way to determine that correlation is pool size, currently.

Having said that, if another mechanism replaced it that gave you a magnitude threshold without an exact number (10k, 100k, 500k, 1M, 10M, more), that was ideally based on the tiers of consumption, sure, that would work.
Otherwise, I'd prefer to see the numbers, myself. And anyone that REALLY wants to see them will derive them from single player offline mode via memory scanning, regardless of how much effort Portalarium goes to, to hide them.
Even something as simple as hit points, which they will never hide at this point, is an indicator both of character level and mob level. Why not just optionally allow the player to toggle the numbers, then everyone is happy.

 

Good point, but it is also true that it could be done without it. For example, I killed 6 bears and my skill in pole-arms did not increase. It is less quantitative, but just as deterministic. I read a lot of posts from people, like "I killed X and lost N points on my adv exp bar". What is missing in almost every post is what happened to the skills. In the end, it is the dev problem to solve why when you kill N bears, the skills do not level. Nobody should really care how it gets there.

 

I think the fact the exp bar is there is part of the reason for the complaints. People are over analyzing half the equation and making posts, sometimes with no basis. In that vain, I raised the issue that the bar should be removed as it is more harmful than helpful in my opinion.

 

I suspect that Richard might not be happy with his new name.... Just sayin....

 

Definitely not my opinion, the XP system is fine. It may be confusing to new players but a decent tutorial will remedy that.

 

I like the skill system we have.

It's very complex and the learning curve is steep. It doesn't do enough to combat macroers. But it's actually very good. I think it just needs some tweaks.

 

I said the adventure and production levels wont be visible @Weins201

I dunno about the XP pools

 

The system is fine to me too. It is the UI that needs improvement.

 

Managing (locking, unlocking, and un-learning) skills are options, but not a neccessity. It's possible to just buy the skills you want initially and advance your character into an effective adventurer without micro managing skills

 

there sure is but it will take forever and you will NEVER get the skill like your want them. If you don't manage them the innates will hit the levels where they take % and eat up all your points before you could even think about succeeding in training other skills.

But you are not incorrect, just not giving players any ability to accomplish anything with any reliability or at all in any reasonable time frame.

So if you want follow EMP mind set, go for it, but please do not come back complaining you cannot gain or have plateaued, . . . . .

 

One UI I used recently is the skill UI from Black Dessert. I really like how it tells you when you can level a skill and which skills are eligible, then you pick which to level.
That UI does not imply that skills level at the same rate. It simply gives you the choice what and when to level.

While that one is not use based, it will work with use based because only the skills that were used enough would show up as available to level. Seems like the best of both worlds to me and provides a much more intuitive interface.

 

I haven't really seen much complaint from players about the skill system in game, but I have seen it many times over the deck system. The card system is very confusing to people and quite a few hate the randomness of it. I was grouped with a player that was higher "adventure level" than I was and we were still dying due to the randomness of the skills he was getting at the time. I can understand that frustration; here you are leveling a skill and you suddenly don't know it when you need it. It has no real strategic feel to it. You spend more time looking at the hot bar then you do at what is fighting you. I have gotten used to it the way it is, but I can agree with his assessment.

I think the biggest complaints I would have over the whole system is a lack of uniqueness in the trees. Several magic tress have an arrow, fist, shield ability and a pet. I think they should be drastically different and able to stand on their own. I know we have a healing tree and some other odd trees like Moon, that are unique, but they can't handle themselves in a fight without the help of other trees. Tying skills to weapons just makes it so I have no innate abilty; I am the same as everyone else. It feels like a hidden class system realistically. An idea might be to have a separate huge tree that you pick from as you avatar enters the world. This tree has a lot of special abilities and you can only ever choose 1 or 2. These skills should also increase as your power increases. Maybe I am a tree whisperer and can find wood better then everyone else, or maybe that skill creates a temporary helping tree pet that roots mobs. They should have a longer cool down than other abilities, but still useable per fight or craft or gather. Just something to make me really unique that doesn't cause everyone to "want" that skill too. They should all be really great; an ultimate or "oh crap" skill if you will.

The other complaint I would have would be that I can cast a light and all of a sudden another skill, completely unrelated also skills up! That makes no sense. If I use the skill over and over again, I am supposed to get better in it , not fire attunement when I cast the light spell. If you are overweight then the corresponding skill should go up as you "learn to carry things better". Your magic pets should get better the more you use them AND the higher attunement you get in that tree. That should not include how many times I can cast the pet spell. I can see casting a spell maybe increasing my skill cost reduction efficiency, but not making my pet better.

I understand the reasoning behind the 4x experience; the devs just want to see how we handle the skilling up process. Maybe at some point they will want to test max skills as well and give us those abilities right off the bat. I agree that should happen sooner than later though. You guys are coming to the point where combat should be more solidified for the game.

As to adventure level, I agree this should go away. There is no point to it in a skill based game. It is just a hidden way of saying I am leveling. I think the only reason it is in there is to create a quick way to compare mobs to players. I think in its place you make mobs in tougher areas simply have so many skills at 20 or 30 or 80. That should determine how tough an area is over adventure level comparison.

 

Even the UI isn't bad, ten minutes in team speak and we have new players managing their decks and skills like veterans.

 

Nobody and I mean nobody would call that a success.

 

I think I just did.

The game doesn't have tutorials in it yet, and it's not meant to be a "simple" game, otherwise you would see quest markers over NPCs heads.