Quick FAQ on the new targeting stuff.

Aye that is the problem. Currently the crosshair is slightly above us, and when in point blank range you have to aim a bit lower than your target.

Was in a group last night and had 0 misses with my mage for over an hour. Only trouble I had was healing the correct group mate or myself when they were stacked on each other. Which from one of Chris's posts will be looked at using a new method perhaps.

 

@Chris, why were the changes made for targeting? I looked very carefully at the release notes and I couldn't see any reason listed for the change other than so people wouldn't have to hold down the right mouse button - which has nothing to do with targeting, there was already a key binding for mouse-look mode and the new targeting actually makes it harder for many people to play the game. Is there a reason that the targeting changes were made or did someone just think it was a good idea?

 

[ironic]I'm sorry to say you're terribly wrong: look at Chris' video in the first post of this thread: you should do the same, gently asking others to stay in place while shooting at them: that way the new targeting system is nearly perfect.
[/ironic]

All apart, it seems to me, looking at the various video linked, that the new system is really good for melee fighters (and the TAB-to-target have been unfair for them for years)... a little pity for all others (ranged fighters) who can't fight but ok, there is still the artisans' way.
If we, ranged fighters, have to pay our tax as long as the melee have been wait for this system, to see a new, fair, one for us also... be ready to wait 40 years, players.

 

My experience with the new targeting system has been mostly a positive one, (minus the few hiccups that I'm sure will get ironed out in future passes). I play a Ranger type class, only Archery type skills and their Combos at the moment in reticle mode. I move with the WASD keys and have a few harder to reach Number keys remapped closer to my movement keys. I've had little to no problem targeting what I want....upfront targets, or targets farther away. That being said, some repositioning is required to maintain a back target, especially if something decides to get in it's way. For what it's worth, I believe that is how it should work. I do believe that the attack cone should be tightened up a bit, that may help with the bunny-kabobs I get from time to time .

I can see the system being problematic for a ranged class when a tight group gangs up on you, but in that situation I really don't think you should be able to easily single out a target without the possibility of hitting an unwanted one. In that case I would rather toss out an Aoe attack, then perhaps gain some distance to better use my ranged abilities. This is entirely up to play style though and what works best within the system.

Now, hearing how some were having problems with ranged magic attacks, I thought I would give that a go in this new system. I made a fresh mage, so only really had the Fire arrow and Sun spell to play around with, but the first thing I noticed is I was unable to highlight my target at distance with either of these spells. Unlike the archery skills, the crosshairs would not change color to show when I was in range or highlight the target. This really was not a problem when I had a single target, (I could still use those ranged spells with no problem) but I did notice "target jumping" with these spells if there was something else also within my range. This I assume is a bug, for the ranged magic spells should work the same as the ranged archery skills. I will mention though that once the target was upon me, the crosshairs did highlight "targeted" with both my up close and ranged magical attacks.

 

Excellent writeup @Tracker!
I would suggest making a bug report about that ranged magic vs archery targeting difference (there doesn't seem to be a single one about it in place yet, how come I wonder...?) so it does not get lost in the feedbackland haystacks...

 

What I've difficult to understand is why not to keep both systems: the new one seems better for melee (and ranged in some conditions) while the old one was (IMHO) better for ranged... but, as I work with ranged (magery) and melee (swords), having both and being able to switch from the two would be the best.

I don't think the devs would like to nerf ranged fighters so, please, explain the reasons of this choice: at the moment all I read was "there is a new system" (untold: you'll have to cope with that), ok, but why?
Someone told me "if it's not broken don't try to fix it" but we know that the old system was a little unfair to melee fighters, but "fixing" it to be unfair to ranged seems a little strange to me.

 

This is my take on this question

Why not to keep both systems:
1. Testing will not happen at a high enough level to give the polish required to make the system work. If only half the community uses it then not nearly enough bugs will be found and corrected; Even players who enjoy the system may not be enticed to using it since the old system is easier - why make things harder on yourself when you can let the game play for you.

2. Inconsistent and divided experiences of the game and its environments. If the devs can settle on what players have in their toolkit it allows them to create content appropriately. Unfortunately since we had the first majority of the development in the old style I feel like this personally argues against the change. Currently this target mode is strongly suited to outdoor scenes. If you are in a tunnel or corridor you're much less likely to be able to use the new targeting system effectively.

3. Game vision, personality, and realization according to the developers. Targeting is a core aspect of any game that completely changes the look, feel, and how you as a player interact with the world. If both versions remain in the game we may fall victim to the scenario where our game feels like it has no idea what it's trying to be. Subtle changes like camera positioning, targetting, and controls have very substantial impact on any game. If r30 changed the camera to a top down version of the game, but kept all other aspects of the game, it would no longer feel the same, even if that was the only change made.

Now I'm not arguing one way or another; I could take either system. The problem I have is I don't want some half baked implementation because the devs were put through the hoops and had to make compromises that make both systems feel like garbage. I personally didn't think the previous iteration was even polished, I constantly had to tab cycle endlessly trying to find my target, then if I used a ground target ability I would have to do it all again, It was far from perfect.

~Woden

 

I'm pretty sure I was going to used both systems... if the old one remained: this not 'cause I'm loving the new one but 'cause it's far more effective than the traditional one while having to fight in close quarter combat, when I use my melee weapons.

As many mages, in Ultima Online, I ever had problems with CQC. This as I tried to be a "pure mage", raising to the top my magery skills and not looking at the "melee" ones, 'cause I did mostly PvE and very rarely PvP, so it was more confortable, to me, to target NPC enemies from far, one at the time, and it was rare I had to fight them near to me (especially if my evocations took part in the (melee) CQC ).

Here I "can't be" (translation: is better I'm not) a "pure mage", so it will be probable for me to do much CQC even doing PvE. As I'm very far from being an high-level mage (as Wodin correctly stated), I just can't stop enemies far from me so, at the moment they come closer, it's the time to switch the two systems and simply fight "in front of" me. And if I'm happy to have this new system, as I need it, I've to say I'm needing the old one too.

 

This type osf system is already implimented in other games that have gotten it to work beautifullyf oir both melee and ranged, as well as healers.
It's not finished yet and its expected to be mostly finished by R30 or shortly after. The ability to highlight party members for quick healing will assist with the healing problem, and i think he said they are gonna se how targeted AoE heals work as well.

He mentioned a "soft tab" target to be avilable, i dunno what that is but we'll see if it helps.

 

Sure.
It's obvious, if not normal, we're a little whining, as the transition from the traditional system seems hard and not without pain now... I'm trying to learn how to do with this system (even if I'm used with "point in front" systems... but in other games I'm not a mage, I'm a sniper ). Maybe the "soft TAB" is the "lock" we're in need now.
Anyhow... in the meantime we're waiting the system to be fixed (and usable), we're comparing the two and, maybe, trying to suggest how to develop a better one... sure we're giving out our feelings now.

 

Why can't I single click on something to target it? I can't even single click a party member to target them. F2 does NOT target the next party member. Prior to the wipe, this was not an issue. R29 has broken this and caused us to die more often than necessary. I can't target and maintain a target on an enemy, causing me to be shooting my arrows at an enemy directly in my face yet the arrows are suddenly going off in another direction bringing another mob right on me. I can't stand this new targeting system!!!!

 

Having not played for a couple of months due to illness, I finally got to log in last night - and was utterly, completely baffled. The default settings made it pretty much unplayable for me, even getting the hang of how to move around the world was slow and painful, targetting anything specifically was confusing as hell, and having a crosshair stuck in the middle of the screen no matter what I do, zoom in or out or change viewing angles.... utterly trashed what used to feel like immersion in the world. I found and tried out the FAQ that Chris started this thread with (having to find a forum FAQ to makesense of what should be almost intuitive in a game really is NOT good!) - and while it helped a little, it was still painful (I finally got back to using the right click to turn, but it kept apparently losing that setting every time I went in to or out of combat, or the 'zoomed in' NPC conversations, and needed constantly resetting.). I tend to use the mouse to use icons, open menus and such - that was laughably hopeless until I found the way to turn off your mouse controlling where you looked!

Target jumping was extremely irritating, and seemed to happen for no reason at all. When the guide shouts "YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE TARGET UNDER THE RETICLE." I am sorely tempted to shout back 'then why have the bloody thing, I do not need a reticle stuck in my face all the time in real life and somehow manage to 'target' anything I need to pretty well?' I genuinely wonder what is the point of a reticle if not really for targetting.....

I will keep trying, and maybe I might get to like it - or at least be able to put up with it - but I was so disheartened that I only managed to complete the intro scene and travel to Soltown before I logged off, didn't even go looking for house spots as I had hoped to because the whole experience was just so frustrating...

 

YES!!! Aurelius gets it!! It feels like the devs were (pardon the pun) shooting for a shooter look. This isn't a shooter, there is far more interaction in an MMO than a shooter and that REQUIRES more mouse action. Instead of defaulting to a shooter look/style, default it to the way it was in R28 and have the ones that like the shooter/R29 look click to set it. This is not an intuitive set up and while I don't have the $$ that many seem to have put into this game in pledges/support, what I have put in is a lot for me. It's very disappointing to log in after R29 took affect and be so disgusted with the targeting/lack of targeting that you don't want to play but don't want to have wasted a few hundred $$.....and yes, I know this isn't a finished product, but it seems like a step backward.

 

Its not finished, they werent aiming for a fps look, but rather a combat style thats more involved than pushing a button. There will be better target aquisition by the time they are done, and chris claims there isa way to get rid of the reticle tho i havent found outhow yet, but that tells meit will be possible if it isnt already

 

How about our being able to move the reticle, so those of us in melee with everything shorter than us don't have to watch the opponent's health bar from straight above the action...
If I'm forced to use it, then at least let me position it.

 

I actually hid the reticle........it makes me sad to even see it.

So after painfully playing the game for a fair number of hours now (and sadly I will never get those hours back), I can confirm that I only feel comfortable in the mode where the cursor is available. I hide the reticle because I hate even seeing it. Combat 1 v 1 is 'OK'.......by 'OK' I mean not good nor bad.....more 'meh'. Combat involving multiple targets is not good. I haven't even tried PvP (and I wont) because it will be very clumsy and slow, although I guess people who love slow gameplay and 1 v 1 will be jumping with joy. I find that lag now affects combat a lot more than it used to in the sense that I lose targets a lot easier (another reason why I doubt I will PvP....competitive play would be pointless).

I know I have probably said all this before but that was without spending time on the game. I've now spent time on this so I thought i would share my findings.

I wait in anticipation for future fixes including the 'soft targeting'..........no idea what that really means but if the result is that I can choose a target easily and stick with the target thus avoiding the effects related to lag spikes then I will be a lot happier. I still believe this was poor timing and a poor direction to go in.

 

I'm going to try hiding the reticle too. However, the whole thing just makes me sad.

 

I will add that listing the results in the chat panel is next to ridiculous. Who's reading this in the middle of a fight ? We need to SEE the effects the same way we see those that are active on ourselves.
At this moment, the only way to have full infos on the target is to double click on it, and this starts the auto-attack (that is often unwanted).
Program switching from a target to another without our consent should be prohibited, too.
Get us the "target closest enemy" hotkey back ! And make the target permanent until the player changes it ! Who's playing the game after all, me or my PC ?

ABSOLUTELY !

This is my greatest disapointment, and imho the worse move SotA has made since I started playing.

Kliirkast (aka Hennda dinaKass)

 

How do you hide it?

It's the most immersion breaking thing I've ever seen in a game in my life. If I had to come up with a more immersion breaking thing I couldn't.

This isn't a first person shooter. So why the crosshairs? I don't get it. If it's an attempt to draw in oculus rift users why not give a hide option for the many that don't own nor will ever desire to own VR goggles. I would rather play another game alltogether than be forced to look at crosshairs everytime I play. It's that over the top immersion breaking for me. Yet I've heard one of the reasons it was added was to make the game more immersive. Last I checked, I don't see crosshairs when I go to a Renaissance Fair, in fact, I don't recall ever seeing crosshairs in front of my eyeballs, ever. Unless I'm looking through some scope on a gun. So, for a first person sniper shooter game, yes, it can be immersive, otherwise, no.

I've asked how do you hide it with no answers. Are they not even planning on adding an option to hide it? I can say one thing is for sure, if they don't plan on adding an option to hide the reticle, it would be a BIG mistake.

 

There is a slider bar under video settings that allow you to hide it altogether or make it fades. Per the first post of this thread, there will be more options soon.