Why do we need a newbie-mega-guild?

The Discord chat was set up by the Ultima Codex, not by the devs. They have begun using it to replace the outdated IRC channel, but they don't mandate anything there. Hospitaller chat was added there at the request of the community, so there would be an easy place to send players asking questions in real-time. Just because its in Discord, doesn't mean its dev supported.

 

When negotiating my focus is on problem solving. Understanding the other person's motivation is the key. I really can't understand the motivation of those opposing this feature.

I see what is being posted but there is no real motivation posted.

The supporting side has clearly stated their motivation. The opposing side's best motivation is to keep things as they are currently implemented.

Can someone frankly and clearly explain why this is a bad feature? Help me to understand. Denying there is a problem is not valid, sorry. The facts support the exact opposite. Concern about collusion and improprieties is invalid, anyone can use this feature. Feelings don't matter, facts.

What am I missing?

 

I personally don't deny there's a problem, i'm just stating that a global chat is not an adequate solution to that problem, understanding problem as "how to introduce players to the new functionality" as Dallas said it. The factual solution for that is to improve the game, make it robust and coherent so new players are able to grasp what's going on. Also, as far as i've been reading this thread, most of the so called facts of the supporting side are just disguised opinions. The only ones that could be considered "valid" are those that say "a new way to help people! cool!" but they're forgetting about the rest of problems it may bring with it. Why should we implement a solution that may bring another bunch of problems with it? why not go for the safe and long road?

That's what i can provide as far as facts are concerned. I'll be honest enough to not conceal my opinion and plainly state it; the existence of a global chat pushes SotA one step further in a direction i don't want it to go. My experience in other games tells me it will do more harm than good. To ensure good prevails over harm it would need a manpower we don't have. Sure lots of people will take advantage on it... but i'd bet those aren't new players at all.

Oh i just recalled another fact! Shroud of the Avatar isn't supposed to have any kind of global chat. At least that was a fact before this proposal came up...

 

We would moderate any issues there, and will work on how to mitigate abusers of the system creating new characters constantly, etc.

The Outlander guild is overall a good idea and one we are moving forward with. The specifics of the idea, such as how long you can be in the guild, can you be in multiple guilds along with it, etc. are still being ironed out. As the feature is launched, we will make additional adjustments as needed. We need and appreciate the feedback from the community here, but make sure you post constructive actual feedback and not just "I don't like this idea and am going to yell about it".

The main goal is to provide an open communication path and support to new players and among new players. If you don't like being part of the Outlander guild at the start, you can of course leave. It's a simple idea and one I have seen work in many other games in the past.

Please be patient everyone while we work on those details and put them into a separate announcement. The Outlander guild idea is not coming for awhile yet, so we have time to formulate our plans here with you.

In the meantime, let's keep the conspiracies to a minimum please . Nothing secretive is going on here, and I would appreciate the negativistic posters to please stop trying to stir up trouble and just ask basic questions instead.

 

Still don't think multi-guild is the right thing. It may be as simple as changing the name of it to not include the word guild which carries a lot of baggage.

I would be in favor of a vastly improved chat system where people can create their own chat channels and etc, like IRC.

@Barek

If you want to be the cool kids on the block, consider integrating Discord chat like internet radio stations are integrated. That way, Discord does all the heavy lifting and the game just pushes and pulls from it. One step cooler is to make a chat API and let someone else integrate Discord and other chat services into it.

 

Yup. I would love to see this. This would also fast-track any sort of in-game voice chat!

 

It's Berek!!

Just to be clear, we're talking about the Outlander guild in this thread. Multi-guilds is a separate topic, but one we are also considering the finer details to.

 

You want me to be constructive?
Great. I will be constructive.
After somebody tells me why this got decided behind closed doors.
Because that's what i feel has happened.
Sure the details will be discussed but the desicion itself was made without us.
I know creating a game is no democracy, that's all cool.
But if that's a change of course after you asked us several times about our opinion and pretty much made a democracy out of the development i would like to know why you changed the course.

 

And as I said before maybe we have different definitions of "dev supported" but by allowing it to stay and advertise, and back it, and allowed UC to create it, and to stay, to me means they support it. Not support as in throwing manpower and resources, but support it as an allowing it to be there.

But Dallas brought multi guilds into this topic, BECAUSE of the Outlander Guild.

 

Motive and Exit Plans;
The motive is simple, it's a collection place where we can best aide the new player (and old player) with our game's unique interface which is often difficult for many players to become more accustom to while providing a great atmosphere of becoming a part within our larger New Britannia community.

One thing if certain, is that the Hospitallers and The Fellowship stand behind the best interests of this project's success and will aide it in everyway we can. Both of these organizations are not Guilds, yet The Fellowship for the RP administering of our Quests which are to highlight the coming launch of our game and Ultima VII's 25th anniversary year in 2017 because Ultima VII along with UO are the key inspirations of our SOTA.

All guilds both large and small and those wishing to make guilds are all extremely invited to participate and become involved with the project which will come to support our game's Outlander Guild. The details are yet to be known on which way or how we will proceed, yet whatever comes available to us, we will whole heartedly support.

As for The Fellowship Cult's involvement, all we need is for our Portalarium to create the Outlander Guild and all other things will fall into place with no modifications necessary unless Portalarium wishes to in seeing something they think needs to be done.

It needs to be publicly noted here, that over 80% of all Fellowship Cult membership are actual members of many other guilds. Some are even solo players who aide the project. Some aide the project as a pass time while others are more active, as it's a come and go as you please project design for the casual as well as active player.

Much differently than the mission of the Hospitallers, The Fellowship objective is to create an atmosphere of quest and purpose for the new player by encouraging those players to "rise" through visiting and becoming involved with as many different guilds as they possibly can, while adventuring with their fellow Outlanders through this world of ours. Having an "exit plan" is the weakest link in the creation of such a guild as the Outlanders, so we wish to encourage this through quest.

This is thus far the involvement of The Fellowship Cult that has been offered, yet we will adjust to anything our Portalarium decides to do.

Other possible exit plans;
Other plans could include a skill level being reached, yet as we all know, we haven't all reached a level of game interface understanding even when we have achieved any skill level, thus it's not viable to "auto eject" any player from the Outlanders based on any skill level.
Another possibility is that of "time spent in the Outlander Guild", which for the casual player may not fulfill their needs of remaining in the Outlander Guild.

Within these considerations there are those abilities of other guilds to train their own new players which is a long time tested way of doing so, yet for the solo player or player wishing to learn more quickly, the Outlander Guild presents opportunities better fitting of such a swifter proses. Though the Outlander Guild it's hoped that our Hospitaller numbers will grow to better aide in such a swifter help made available 24 hours a day operation. This is where The Fellowship Cult can truly aide their cause, as when outside guilds wish to interact with the Outlanders, our Outlanders are then well motivated through The Fellowship Quest to have banned all together and make that visit, event, hunt or quest with any outside guild more appealing to participate in.

These are the hurtles we face when talking about any exit plan we can implement to better serve the cause of welcoming our new players into a more rich enjoyment of our game.
~Time Lord~

 

So you are telling us that if we dont agree with you we should STFU. Poor form sir. You are being a dictator

 

I don't think trying to keep a conversation constructive is being dictatorial. There have been some pretty wild claims about hidden motives mixed in with the relevant feedback. Sometimes the good stuff gets dismissed because it gets buried in a lot of feigned outrage and repetition of the same statements.

Hopefully as more is known about the outlander guild and how it will function, we can all provide helpful feedback to shape it into the best form possible.

 

So... it's happening and that's all? Why go for the hotfix again instead of fixing it properly?

I can't be more constructive as i've been during this whole thread, but i'll repeat myself again. So here's my "I don't like this idea and i'm going to tell you why".

You call the Outlander guild a good idea. I disagree assuming it's posed as a solution for the steep learning curve of the game. This is not a good solution for that. The solution for making the game easier to learn is to make the game easier to learn; focus into the core mechanics design to trim the unnecesary and make it robust and coherent, so people understand what the game wants from them.

The Outlander guild Its not a guaranteed solution for the problem at hand, and it may bring some additional problems that will require additional attention from the staff. That's not a solution. That's a gamble.

Whether people accept it or not the actual division here lies just in personal opinions; those who wants a global chat replacement and those who don't. I belong to the latter, but i'm throwing what i believe it's a legitimate reason NOT to move forward with this. Make SotA a learnable game, then check again how many people is having issues adapting to the new mechanics of the game. Once we have a robust and coherent game we can see if this is still necessary.

 

Ya its hard to be positve sometimes. It seems to me that they do not understand or care why we are negative. For instance, we have conflicting stories. Starr said it was a hospitaller idea. Dallas said it was partly his and the hospitallers idea. Themo sais he has no idea about any hospitaller involvement. Am I wrong to think someone is not telling the truth. Berek in his comments conflict with what starr and dallas have said. I feel like im in bizzaro world. I guess i should take some anti depressants or something. Maybe a labotomy.

 

There are multiple conversations taking place where the Outlander Guild is concerned... What I think happend was this:

- Forums. I think the devs do read the forums but rather than replying directly to every question and concern they aggregate issues and extrapolate major concerns compiled from numerous minor concerns. The Outlander Guild is likely a solution for many of the major concerns for new players.... and they should do a better job communicating with us in the forums.
- New Player Project message. There's 60 or so participants in this discussion and it's highly constructive for what it is. It's all volunteers (read as gamers) brainstorming ideas for anything that involves community and new players. It's a think tank - and very diverse - most of the folks participating in that thread are also highly active in game seeking out new players and then returning to the think-tank with feedback. I can see where folks might overthink the groups purpose though... perhaps @Berek could offer an Exposé or Community Spotlight on the group. There's really nothing to hide and nothing odd going on - I've been a part of it for some time. I'm not active in the group like many of the other participants, but I do a fair share of reaching out to new players and walking them through beginning steps of game play.
- Portalarium. The dev table where all the leadership gets to sit down and work out what's what based on forum feedback, player concerns, new player project feedback, and everything else and this is where big game changing (literally) decisions are made. This is all on Port... and rightly so. And this is where the idea for the Outlander Guild came from and why we players (all of us) really had no clue what it was about or where the idea came from.

I like to call a spade a spade as much as the next loud guy - but truth be told, I think the Portalarium team has some fantastic leadership at the helm... if I didn't I never would have pledged the way I did/do.

 

In addition starr did not even mention multi guilding in his noob guild annoncement. I dont understand why he would leave such an important item out of it. If it was not for earl and this thread we would not have even known about it. It would have been trojan horsed into the game with the outlander guild. Stuff like that leads to thinking we are being left out of the loop purposefully.

 

As I already stated, that's because multi-guild is still something we're considering and how it would be implemented, and is entirely separate from a new player guild. Conspiracy throttle set to low please .

 

Sorry for truncating your post, you always have a lot to say. I wish it wasn't so, but I still believe you guys are doing it for your own benefit. You try to hide it behind good intentions, but it feels more as 'monopolizing' than anything really promoting a fair society. Secret cults always plan behind everyone's back, weave their evil plans of world domination . Their intentions are as dark as their secrets . You guys sound like the spawn of Goons guild that go from game to game and try to "dominate" everything they can.

 

Its not a conspiracy berek. Dallas brought it up in this very thread and tied it to the coversation. Please refrain from degrading me with conspiracy as is a personal attack and meant to belittle or demean me. What is your prefered venue for us to talk about what we see as odd or out of place. I think you are confusing feedback with being negative.

 

If this makes new blood come into the game and have a superior experience, all the better. But if it over-complicates matters and creates extra political and future membership issues between said guilds, then it all comes to nought.

The guilds should meet up and discuss this openly and set guidelines right from the beginning.

If too many conflicting ideas come up, then my opinion is to just let the Hospitallers do their job and guide the new players through the New Player forums or Discord channel, which still makes perfect sense.

(There must be clear instructions in the tutorial that state help can be gotten from those areas though, so that the New Players know immediately that help is at hand and that they're not alone.)