Please stop selling us stuff and give us info about pvp so we know what we are buying.

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Gruumsh, Mar 14, 2014.

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  1. Dadalama

    Dadalama Avatar

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    really we don't even know what combat is like or how important it's going to be anyways.
     
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  2. Sir Tim

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    Well... they needed $1million... they are at $3.4 million... I think the bills are paid. I have to agree with OP. I am extremely timid about buying anything else cause the way PvP is set up is a no go for me.

    If land stays transferable, I might buy a few pieces just to sell it a month after release; just before this game cashes after the player base understands the consequence of the current PvP system proposal. After all, I think there is no doubt when this game is released it will be a big initial hit. All this current system does is make anti-PvP happy and leaves Open PvP upset.

    The team is lopsided in their views. A simple separate mode that you cant transfer in to would make more people happy than this. Now you have a mode were anti-PvP'ers cant play portions of the game, and Open PvP'ers have nothing.

    They need to get some real Open PvP'ers on the team to help them. Cause at the moment it's clear they are anti-PvP or consensual PvP'ers forcing themselves to bend their skewed ideals on how an online mode should work to work for those of us that prefer an Open Role Play environment.

    SotA, Please hire some Open PvP devs/designers to help you get it right.
     
  3. Owain

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    Most people who work for a living will agree that the bills are NEVER paid. If you have ever owned your own business, or had to meet a payroll requirement, you'd know that the bills are NEVER paid. I suspect that only people who have everything provided for them think bills aren't a problem.

    My four year old grand daughter also thinks everything gets paid by magic.
     
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  4. Sir Tim

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    Sure, for some... after creating a 1 year to product delivery business plan and carefully setting a budget that will get you there... sure, for some its not enough.

    But some of the successful business men understand what it means to manage your business at a professional level. I suspect your 4 year old GD might not understand that either. If you have ever owned your own business, or had to meet a payroll requirement, you'd know that the $1million you planned for is enough. But you're right, some people are not good with money or in business. I dont know if you are trying to suggest that with SotA... but I have faith in LB... he has been around the block enough.

    But completely understand how someone could be perplexed at the idea of sticking to your business plan. That's just what a successful business man needs to do.
     
  5. Phredicon

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    I'm still unclear as to how, once the 'Blessing of the Oracle' quest is completed, the above is not exactly the world the PvP players will find themselves in. Can someone explain it to me what would be missing?

    At that point, it's not random, it's everyone you see (assuming that selective-multiplayer ranks that highly) and it's not an arena, it's everywhere in the world, including towns.
     
  6. Myth2

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    I don't believe funding is as straightforward as "we need x amount of gold." If Portalarium gets more cash, they can invest in new features and staff, so they can always use more cash. That said, I'd rather just pay a big up front fee (say, $500) than deplete my coveted nickel/dime stash over the course of a year while I wait for the game to be released. For that reason, I stopped buying from the add-on store months ago.
     
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  7. docdoom77

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    Both sides have valid points. To be honest, this entire thread would be much less contentious, if the term UO2 had not been used. It's a real hot button term that always causes arguments.
     
  8. Owain

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    If you recall the kickstarter campaign, you'll remember that a million was just the starting point, the amount to provide a game with minimal features. Each successive milestone added features, which required more staff, and incurs greater expenses.

    I don't think my granddaughter would appreciate that, but then she's only four.
     
  9. Kal

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    even if people believed this was UO2 and are mad that it isn't. that doesn't mean anything because UO changed constantly. there is the UO where you can pk people right outside the town zone, hell you could even kill them in town if you planned it well, even though guards would then kill you. there is the UO with trammel and felucca, there is the uo with item insurance etc so even saying this was UO2 has no meaning whatsoever because there were tons of different versions of UO throughout the years.
     
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  10. Myth2

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    Phredicon, you ninja. To clarify my post, I don't mean the "arena" bit literally. I'm using that term to highlight the insignificance of PvP as it stands. The interconnectedness of the single world separates PvPers from everyone else. Non-PvPers have little to gain from taking the additional risks of PvP and as a result, the PvP-option won't feel like a world, because it will be largely limited to PvPers. Personally, I believe that the result will be similar to the insurance-driven fel/tram era of UO. Crafters and PvEers will shape the economy from what is practically another dimension, while PvPers will meaninglessly slaughter each other for trivial insurance rewards and bragging rights.

    To better convey my perspective, I'm contrasting this in my head with Siege Perilous, which was consensual-PvP, but was also separated from other servers. The result was that PvPers had to work with (or become) PvEers, and crafters were more prevalent. Crafters who chose to live in this dangerous world were rewarded by not being flooded with cheaper goods from Trammel. While there aren't many crafters/PvEers who want to open themselves up to additional risks, those that exist have been forgotten in the current system, and instead are required to stay in safety to compete.

    Also, @Kal: For clarification, when people rant about UO's glory, they are almost always referring to the Open-Newbie-Slaughter Loot-Their-Pixels Trash-Talk-And-Bag-When-Done era of UO.
     
  11. Kal

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    no, 1 million dollars was the bare minimum. making these games costs money, big money. the more money they make the better the game they can create.

    and your last statement is totally wrong, a businessman changes their plan as needed. it's like warfare, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. you have to change and adapt.
     
  12. Sir Tim

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    haha, thats fine. My apologies to your GD then. :) I figured expanding off your point was in order. :)

    But yes, there is scope creep(bad management), and there is planning for new goal points. Any new goals they had set at those funding points should be covered by good management. The only time they would need to 'worry about money' is if they were not managing things well. Remember, they aren't releasing the game for free. Continued support after this is expected to be funded like any other business... continued sales.

    It sounds like you have run a business before. I have run several startups. Get them going then stepping out. But I'm actually running one of them now as a business which seems to be just as much fun. I would call SotA in a "start up" phase. Put research for demand aside, once you know what your product is(SotA in this case); you set dates, staff roles, pay rates, and many more needs to hit the deadline date. You set your funding goals based on that plan. You then obtain your funds based on all that with what ever your spin up resources are(money to run the marketing needed for a kickstarter campaign, or your own personal time selling your idea to investors).

    I think my point is(whether or not you have done many startups, or just ran your own business), that there is a point your just looking to put on more icing, and not focusing on your cakes recipe. :)
    Its not wrong. See my post to Owian just about this. :)
     
  13. dontcounttoday

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    I was just about to make my first pledge and jump in when I got to the PVP & Death Current Thinking megathread. I was certainly expecting and hoping for something more along the lines of open PvP, but instead its basically the same layout as all modern MMORPGS that coddle to the players scared of a little risk.

    As to all the people that keep saying this line "Its NOT UO2" it is without a doubt following the lore of Ultima. The world is named Brittania is it not? Why would we not expect it to be somewhat reminiscent of UO?
     
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  14. Owain

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    What about the Open PvP included in the design falls short for you?
     
  15. dontcounttoday

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    What I suspect is that, outside of guilds, the online player base will basically end up how Trammel / Felucca did. The vast majority will play it safe on Trammel mode, unable to be interacted with in a "negative" way, and like Felucca the open pvpers will be few and far between. No PvPing and no Stealing most likely for the majority.
     
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  16. Owain

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    Perhaps you should wait to see what develops before listening to your fears.
     
  17. dontcounttoday

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    I can only go based on what they have recently stated their intentions are. I even understand it, theres probably a large playerbase that do not want open PvP at all. Its just not what I was expecting, and I cant put money into the project without knowing for sure what kind of game its going to be. Everything else looks awesome in it so far, and I still may try it either way, but I probably wont donate to it ahead of time if it panders too much to safety as so many MMOs already do.
     
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  18. Owain

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    Well, given announcements ever since the start of the kickstarter, I'm not sure how you could have expected anything else.
     
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  19. jondavis

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    My fear is no fear of death and losing your items.
    My second fear is that players can't do things like rez killing and spreading your body parts all over the ground.
    My third fear is that if players can do either of the above there may not be any criminal system for it.
     
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  20. Phredicon

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    I'm not sure how many, not necessarily yourself, PvPers can say on the one hand there is a ton of people who love the excitement, the risk, the challenge of PvP and it's what makes a game worth playing while on the other hand you can worry that those same PvP players will choose to NOT go PvP in an open and constant basis (it won't be a flag that can easily be changed) and the open PvP landscape will be thin.
     
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