Thoughts about Stretch Goals

Discussion in 'Archived Topics' started by Kheldras, Jun 27, 2014.

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  1. Kheldras

    Kheldras Avatar

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    So, right now we have 3. Checking them daily, i see not much movement on the amounts spent.

    So, heres my beef with that. I have a Knight Pledge. Basically i had a citizenpledge brought, ignorant of the founder program, had to add a founder one, and added some to set it round to the next level
    So. I dare say, my investment isnt small, and im reluctant to spend more, but i like both Elves as a race and mounts are an MMO staple.

    I do think, that splitting off the stretchgoals in separate tracks gives me, and i gues im not alone there, a problem.


    Problem: if you want the goal of the stretchgoal, say: Elves, but are not interested in the items? The Stretchgoal wants from us: Pay 350K, FOR THOSE GOODS, to support this goal. We might a well end with 1000$ less than needed, in all 3, reaching none.

    2 Ideas:
    1) Unify, as in other games, all stretchgoals in 1 track, to reach them in one after another, and let all addons and new pledges count too.

    2) Allow us to count a new pledge or addonshop-sale to one of the goal tracks. So. i pay for a Viking house and i love horses, please let my payment for the house drive along the track for horses.


    What do you think?
     
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  2. smack

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    The approach you're proposing is essentially the KS stretch goal method. Would it be more successful than the individual method? That's debatable. But with the current separate goals, you have a choice and pledge only towards those features that interest you most.

    And the stretch goal funds need to be separate from the ongoing core funding of the game, which they still need to raise. I don't see that changing any time soon. Which is why these additional goals can take their time (there's no time limit), as they have more than enough work just to get the core game completed in the next year or so.
     
  3. DyNaMiX

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    I'd say all of them (except elves) would be a staple of a spiritual successor to Ultima. But apparently none of these basic features are worthy of my initial several hundred dollar pledge.

    Boats, mounts, elves, exclusivity; I'm effectively "done". I am so disappointed with the direction this game has taken.
     
  4. Kheldras

    Kheldras Avatar

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    Yes. Seeing that my knight-level pledge basically does NOTHING to get us all horses, boats and elves, i can but feel a slight disappointment.

    Would i pledge again, i would probably take a much lower one... and spend some for horses.
     
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  5. Bob Brave

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    I am a little concerned about the stretch goals as well. However my thoughts are a bit different.
    I think there are many people (including me) who are willing to pay money for these goals. However I do not see any advantage to buy now.
    Why should someone spend money on the stretch goals not knowing if the goals will be reached. Why not wait until the goal is reached any buy exaclty what you want (kind of boat, horse...) afterwards.
    People pledged huge amounts of money before April in order to have founder level accounts and are still pledging for higher levels because they want e.g. a rent-free house. They spend money to have something they cannot buy when the game is released once. They want something unique or have an advantage or just save money when they buy something earlier than others.
    And honestly the prices for the goals are realistic. There is just not enough sales appeal to pay money now.
    So my suggestion would be make sure there is an advantage to pay now, which will be gone when the stretch goal is reached.

    Examples:
    - Rent-Free harbour lots (boat stretch goal)
    - Point out that the boats will be much more expensive after the stretch goal phase
    - Add unique items which will only be available during the stretch goal phase
    - Let the stretch goal money count towards your pledge tier (at least a percentage of it)
    ...
    Adding this kind of stuff would also allow to take much more money for the stretch goal items. This would make it possible to reach the goals earlier.
     
  6. Numa

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    I like the fact that one of the items purchasable to achieve the functional Boats goal is a real , functioning spyglass.

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=40715

    My feeling is that as an item it's overpriced at $20 considering that the prosperity tools that can be used to make goods of value are selling at $10. However, to support the boats stretch goal i am seriously considering getting it. I may even get that nice Viking longboat decoration after I've finalized my row lot placement sometime early next year.

    But after that, there's really little incentive to put any more money into that pool since there is no guarantee it will ever be reached. I"m really not into Admiral's uniforms, I prefer this :

    [​IMG]

    Not that I intend to pirate - I just like to look badass :)


    Note: image taken from here : http://guildmastergaming.blogspot.com/2014/01/pirate-wizard-for-pathfinder.html
     
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  7. Kheldras

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    Oh yes. That would be a big incentive. Honestly "a forever rentfree parcel" is the big incentive right now.
     
  8. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    Keldras can you post a link to the "a forever rentfree parcel" I haven not heard of it yet.
     
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  9. Kheldras

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    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/?page_id=35139
    Check pledges of Citizen & upward:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rent Free Village Deed

    Rent free, Village Level Property Deed, transferable between players.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    BraveFrank noted that "- Rent-Free harbour lots (boat stretch goal)" would be a stretchgoal that many people were interested in, as the most interesting thing about pledge levels of Citizen and above is the rentfree land.
     
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  10. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    Get In MY BELLY!
    Thanks I will :)
     
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  11. Ravicus Domdred

    Ravicus Domdred Avatar

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    oh I think I just had misinterpreted your statement. (its early yet for me lol) I thought you meant parcel as in "a parcel of mail" not a parcel of land. *has a derp moment* lol
     
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  12. Kheldras

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    /me shoves over a cup of brutal Espresso with cream "Mornin."
     
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  13. Lavos

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    Some players keep mentioning adding more "incentives" to get people to buy into the stretch goals/pledge tiers. However, there are a LOT of players like me that are much less likely to want to donate into a stretch goal when it gives more and more real money-based incentives (old pay-to-win argument - aka real $ donation giving more and more items in game).

    What you are doing is further creating a divide between players who have a lot of expendable real life income, and those that don't. After all, we are all playing the same game here, no?
     
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  14. Bob Brave

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    Well, the game will be free-to-play. So there is no doubt that the money needs to be made by the online shop.
    The question is, what will make players pay enough money to keep the game running and also allow for new development.
    I think pleople pay for cool looking items (clothes, pets, housing stuff) or things that save time.
    Yes, I have more money to spend now than 18 years ago when I started playing UO. However I have much less time now.
    I would not like to spend my whole weekend to gather the upkeep for my house. On the other hand a 15 year old will not have a problem to make enough ingame money after school to pay the rent.
    So, if I can pay money to save some time, I will most likely do that.
    You are absolutely right on the pay-to-win thing. Real money must not give you an advantage in combat (PvE and especially in PvP).
    However, I cannot see how any of my examples makes me win.
     
  15. Lavos

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    You don't see how extra money (from selling founder items/property deeds, and not having to pay rent) can lead to advantage in pve/pvp? A high pledge tier might be able to afford superior armor/weapons that someone having to pay rent upkeep will not. To me things like this are fairly pay to win, though not in a direct $50 for uber weapon kind of way. We'll see how it plays out, but I feel like there will be two castes of people when this game launches, based on whether the player has donated hundreds/thousands of dollars or not.
     
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  16. Kraxtor

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    I very much would like some (or all) of my pledge money to be directed towards one (or more) of the stretch goals. I'm very reluctant to purchase a $20 non-combat pet and $20 saddle/saddlebag house decoration. But I would absolutely increase my pledge by $100 to a higher tier to reap those benefits, if I could apply a portion of that pledge towards, and be credited for, a stretch goal. I'd rather pay and get something I know I want, with the chance of getting something I want, rather than just alone pay for a chance to get something I want.
     
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  17. High Baron Asguard

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    Firstly the game is most certainly NOT free to play. It will be SOLD on whatever platform, from what I remember it was suggested the price would be around $25 but that must be wrong because its the same cost as the first responder tier so maybe it will be $45 or even a full $60 game

    Secondly my biggest problem with these goals is 1) if you actually do the calculations its hard not to think that these were designed never to be reached
    2) most of the items state they will gain some special function if the goal is reached but it doesn't tell you what it is which is just piling risk on risk to the point no one could think this is a good investment

    I would be far more likely to pay up if they would answer questions like
    What is the functionality?
    will this be reached through some other means?

    to put it in context to buy them all is $390 compared to going from my current Knight Commander to Knight Marshal being $450 so what is the better investment?

    Also it would be nice to know if we can place the boat related items on a water lot for example if I get a lighthouse
     
  18. majoria70

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    Well just to jump in. Regarding stretch goals, my understanding was that the stretch goal is to set aside a certain money that doesn't take away from the development money of what is being worked on at the moment to get the game released. It isn't that there won't be horses, boats, elves, pack horses etc in the game at perhaps release 2, 3, or whatever, but that there is a certain amount of money to get what is on the developers plates completed to get the game released. It just means the stretch goals would allow money available to do it sooner. Much more will come into the game at the other releases and since there are 5 what fun that will. One of my problems is I want it now. Of course if I am incorrect on this please feel free to correct me. ;) ****cheers everyone****
     
  19. Batoche1864

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    I agree with majoria70, I don't think these features won't be in the game unless the goals are reached but by having them as stretch goals it allows Portalarium a chance to gauge the demand. Should a goal be reached it would then be bumped up the development schedule to receive priority attention.

    The thing to keep in mind is, it's still early for these goals, they are about a month old. I expect as we get out of Pre-Alpha releases and closer to a committed release for episode 1 these will see some increase in pledges. I know I intend to pledge for these but will do so a little further down the line and I wonder how many others out there share that intention.

    As mentioned earlier in this thread, these goals don't have an expiry date and even if some or even none are reached before the release of episode 1 they will still remain open and will likely have a large effect on these goals place in the development schedule.

    I know some have posted that these stretch goals are nothing but a money grab, but I disagree. This kind of pledging for development allows Portalarium the funds for things without having to seek outside investment. That means the team at Portalarium remains in control, if you wish to see how being controlled by a publicly held corporation can affect a game I suggest you look at Games Workshop & the Warhammer franchises. GWS regularly ignores or squelches fan involvement in their games and has had huge price increases in the past few years, that's what I'd like to avoid with SotA.

    Those are my thoughts but as always YMMV
     
  20. Kraxtor

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    So, stretch goal money is to set aside funds specifically for development of content not yet developed, right?

    Looking at my pledge package options, pretty much all of that tech is in the game. I get my shield, my fruit, my special cloak. If I pay more money, I get my digital necklace, my rent free plot, house, etc. Because all of these assets are developed already. Sure, many of them need polish, and may be implemented slightly differently than now, but my point is that even if I don't buy a more expensive pledge, these assets are in. Row lots exist, as do row houses, etc.

    I think that being able to apply some of my current pledge dollars to a stretch goal or goals would potentially solve two problems - the current high cost of stretch goal attainment, and individuals who have pledged a lot of money but given the choice would have allocated some of those funds to mounts or boats rather than bigger housing lots.

    I'm new to this, and just came in at the Founder level ($65) for Release 7. I'm not sure how many supporters exist for each pledge level, so I can't speculate on the funds distribution. But for me, personally, if I were told that I could assign a percentage (say, 20%) of my pledge towards a stretch goal, I'd be much more open to buying up to, say the $165 Collector, given $33 to assign, and applying that towards a Spyglass and Longboat. Or $275 for Ancestor and putting the $55 towards a mount, longboat, and spyglass. What I am unwilling to do is put money towards a stretch goal that I may not see for quite some time. From an investment standpoint, I'd far rather apply my funds towards rewards I'll experience at release, like a house. Portalarium gets a more pledge dollars from me, and I get to throw a little support behind a stretch goal. (Because mounts.)

    I'm not complaining. I think this game has got a lot of potential. I very much enjoyed R7, and I'm a long time Ultima and UO fan. I'm thrilled that there exist supporters who are able to put considerably more money into the development than I am! The idea of having my own mount and boat (did someone say magic carpet?!) further strengthens my interest and reinforces my nostalgic connections to U4, U7, and UO. I'm sure we'll get there eventually. I really hope we get there sooner than later.
     
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