Who hates the combat system?

Well, to be able to build such diverse decks you still need to spend skill points on all the skills, so except for very high level players I don't see that happening too often.

In my opinion, swapping decks should be either for emergencies, like an archer who has a little sword skills in case an enemy gets too close, or for mixed characters who can swap between two "modes", but not usually more than that.

Of course if a player has enough skill points to have enough skills to have 6 completely different decks... well... he kinda deserves begin able to destroy all of his enemies

 

Also, NPCs should have to do this, too. The elf archer should either have to maintain a distance from me, or get out his dagger.

 

Here's a analogy for the deck system and the idea that there are "better" decks than others: Pokemon.

In Pokemon, what's the best deck depends on who you're fighting and what the ground conditions are. Water pokemon are good against fire pokemon, and have their talents enhanced when they're in water. They're also weak against other types of pokemon and in unfriendly environments.

There are mixed type pokemon and this is both an advantage and a disadvantage; its a tradeoff.

 

If there's anyone here that hasn't, please hit the link above for the Espada interview for some insights

"The Ways of Our Skills and the Ways of Balance"
I like the Guitar Hero comments here because I like Guitar Hero !
When we look at our skills and the way the card system plays, I think it's cool, but don't stop reading here if you're in opposition to this view...
I do agree with others here, that our pure "this or that" character needs to be survivable and viable as a mode of play, and I think we will see future skills that can apply to just about every "this or that" styled character come into our skills to be viable as those styles of "skill sets", whether that's a Mage, Knight, Rogue, Ninja Assassin or whatever. I personally fall into the "whatever" category, where I wish to be sort of a Shaolin Monk style, where I may or may not be the most deadly character in the world, but most would find my character to be very difficult to put down (kill) or maybe have a hard time even bothering with your combat skills. this is where I believe another style of balance needs to be considered, where we need to keep the balance of protection in balance with the ability to destroy another player. In this way, we could see more players who do not want to PvP, not mind the aspect of PvP that much. Because if I can defend myself until a raging attacker is spent in his skills or focus, then I should have the choice then to further my defense into an attack on them or not.

"Surrogates, Fellowships and Skills"
We've all by now seen the Mage's ability to call up an elemental. Yet with these types of helpers, we also need the ability of the Knight to call up or have a squire or accompanying hero. Yet in the single player and offline mode, we need to have the ability to have more than one and therefore build a Fellowship of surrogates of our own as all past Ultima's have.

As this has to do with skills, then we should be able to choose which abilities our squire has, yet limit them to skill sets, abilities or skill trees that complement that type of character and thus build their levels of experiences within those. I would say that any MMO mode needs to have only one and that this squire should equal the abilities of combat with that of the elemental, yet not to go beyond it. In the single player mode, then this character needs to go above and beyond just as any real player can, because it's a world with only them in it. Yet further to the offline mode, then we need a limited amount, yet not limited in skill cast of surrogate characters that we can build from special NPC folks we meet along the way.

"Can We Truly Hate Any System?"
We are not about to become like the Board Members of the Gaming Giants EA or Origins, where we can say, "I demand a this or that, or want it my way or the highway". We can only offer idea or basis for elimination. Our basis for elimination needs to have a more clear picture of our combat than that of only 2 releases R8-R9. A human baby taking it's first 2 steps can't be insisted to walk on the flat of it's feet or not to walk at all and we can't expect these comments of comparing any known finished game with ours until ours is finished. Beta testing?<---<<< we aren't even there yet! "I can't see the combat because I'm too busy looking at the cards"... this too will change, yet you are only clinging to Dallas Mode styled system if you so choose, but don't think that you need to have an equal standing with those who can accept and overcome the challenge of the card combat system, because with more challenge comes rewards and that style of consequence will be a recurring theme throughout our world, where risk is rewarded.

"Risk vs Reward in the Cards"
This is something I think about when using less cards and a totally random popcorn system. I believe a player needs to be more rewarded through advantage "if they are using a totally random deck". I don't feel that it is in any substantial way right now, where risk is being met with proper reward. I also feel that there should be more advantage or reward given to those who use less of a hand in cards. "No one uses a 4 card hand", so why do we even need that first focus option of having 5 cards? If I want any focus at all then, "of course I want at least 5 cards" or I don't get access to the rest of the focus tree. "What if I want only 4 cards, what's in it for me to take such a risk, or such a risk as to have a purely random deck?"<---<<< I don't feel that less of a hand or more randomness are being rewarded enough.

But I love the card system, because you can have a Dallas all fixed set, but don't think for a moment that it will equal the way I want to play if it's more challenging...
We need to take steps that have balance to protection as well as the attack, yet this would lead to much longer arena combat if it's too equal, so I can accept some level of OoOOoOoo more that Ah!
Guitar Hero! 555 Hahahaa, I like that challenging & fun game. But it aint random
~Time Lord~

 

Guitar Hero,

 

Pretty sure that customers are entitled to decide what they like and what they don't. For instance just because Resident Evil 6 was made doesn't mean I owe it to Capcom to buy it and this is no different. Sure I am committed now, I am stuck with whatever it ends up being but when the reviewers slam it and no one else buys it and therefore episode 2 doesn't get made all because the basic mechanics became a barrier stopping people from getting near the deep story etc then its to late to say "I told you so". Companies don't deserve loyalty, customers do. Companies exist to sell products that customers want, we are the customers. It seems that the whole games industry has forgotten this

And I like Guitar hero too, but the reason I keep bringing it up is because I can never watch what the band is doing, I chose my character to be someone I want to see on screen and I never see them because my eyes are glued to which colour circle is coming up next

 

Guitar Hero in Thailand Will Put a Spell on You!

I love Guitar Hero Most anyone who plays a Guitar here in Thailand has a job somewhere playing it and there's so many guitar players here that it's very common to see one riding on the back of many motorcyclist here, of which there are soooo many motorcycles on the streets. There are as many as 8-10 guitar stores just within 2 blocks of where I live here in Chiang Mai and when the gaming store is hosting an audience participation with Guitar Hero here, it's the very small children 5-11 that all line up and they are very good at it! Old school music here in in style and at times the entire place seem like something out of the early 70s where live bands and soloists are everywhere, even on the streets with their fingers in play!

This brings me to the view that maybe we here commenting on this push button and card choice style of our SotA combat, maybe becoming too old to know what's fun modern and hip to the younger generations ...
So get those fingers cracking Chris and bring on some more new card combat skills for us old folks to gripe at some more! I'm still hip enough aren't I? ...hmm...
~Time Lord~

 

I really do not like the combat system and am sorry I put so much $$ into this game so far. I am hoping things change. I just want a traditional bar where I am not punished with a focus penalty for wanting a traditional combat bar instead of these random cards popping up.

 

exactly

 

have to agree with jaqnife

 

btw want to see a true guitar hero https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=331688777007073&fref=nf was so flashed i cant describe XD

 

"I do hear what you are saying and I do believe something is needed for such players to more joyfully enjoy our game"
I'm not totally against what you are saying here, but there does need to be a reward for engaging in the more challenging way of skill random presentation. "As to what type of benefit should be given", would seem a viable way around such a penalty for focus, I don't know. But the way I see the challenge, is more like a Tram vs Fel risk thing, where more risk should bring more reward or advantage somewhere when successful or within it's usage because opportunity does have it's presentation awareness value. This value could be explained away within the mind of the user, or mind behind the keyboard, yet when the deepening of a more challenging system and for lack of greater Avatar or monster physical attitude or positioning for those more challenging opportunities to be better seen for the more perfect strike, the randomness of the cards seems a viable option.

"Slugs"
Slugs are another hindrance, yet should these hindrances be more on the spell casting ability, more than that of the melee Knight's ability to land another melee blow? The sight of the knight in more heavy armor is certainly less than that of a smaller capped or naked head, yet this too should have a greater risk of death blow being taken.



I have been a very active advocate for more challenging game options within our forums here, where risk or more danger means more rewards.

"Learned behavior needs to become more comfortable for our non random card combat players"
The lab rat is a good example of how we all can get use to using a certain set of keys on the keyboard to get reward, yet when this is placed in a random fashion, this takes away the trained rat's mental training and lends itself to the more color coded yet random placed events in the cards that can be used by a faster or more tactically aware mind of the circumstance that the game presents to us. Thus the argument becomes more of an argument of whether or not to give the game a way to limit our wanted outcome, by only presenting to us what the situation limits our ability to do or, to make the game bend to our will. So it's a matter of the games will vs the will of the user within the considerations. Yet further within this adversarial confrontation of player vs game, we need our game to have more challenges than that of other games we came from, and anytime we ask a game to more challenge our abilities, then we therefore do ask it to present us with it's ability to challenge our control of it. Therefore a less challenging game means less reward in many ways no matter what the game is providing as reward, if it's easier to get, then it has less value and when things have less value, we then value that game's product, or reward more cheaply so we leave to come here seeking more challenge in the difficulty level that we want it. Which brings this that I've said back where higher risks taken means more reward given. We could place the increased reward off into what we can loot from monsters or take from our opponent, yet this too intern empowers the risk taker that has overcome the games more difficult challenges and further empowers the risk or challenge taker by way of housing space or equipment. But when we have the risk upfront within the combat system of hindrance to the control of the user, we avoid hiding those rewards within other gains.

"Our Comfort Level"
Challenges are seldom comfortable, which motivates us to overcome them. If we overcome them with a more comfortable system, then we lessen the challenge of it.
I believe that when more skills are added and thus possibly more skill points given, that we will begin to see a better continuity within different builds. Our current 2 time champion Espada has admitted that he uses some fixed cards, yet enjoys the random card system and has overcome many of it's challenges through his gaming skills. Yet this grand player is not using any Dallas Style Deck, as which is in opposition here in this thread to the more challenging random card system.

"Is this entire place a UO Fel in disguise?"
So it's a Fel vs Trammel situation here, where not everyone will be happy with "the Fel random deck of chance, luck and eye movement". But this points to the problem with the current skill availability, where the fixed deck is very hindered by having less skill points to overcome it's less challenging combat style. Thus when this style is preferred to the beginner or new player, then it will take that player a longer time to acquire the skill points they need to overcome their chosen style of safe gaming, yet it can and will be done this way by many.

"Shall we overcome?"
We have only just begun to tippy toe our way into this system, yet the other system is here too, but will take more skill points to overcome it's preferred by some player's style and thus a much longer time for that player's option to achieve, but both players of each style will still have the same number of skill points with the same time spent in playing the game.

"Is there any solution for everyone's comfort?"
Is any of that that I've said a solution?... nope... "it's only the situation we find ourselves in when we want more challenge to have more reward".

"A Solution and maybe not the solution"
I think we need more skill points provided to alleviate this, yet you may not win any current PvP matches that way if you are using the fixed deck system, until we do have skill gains through in game play time...

~Time Lord~

 

"Is this entire place a UO Fel in disguise?"
So it's a Fel vs Trammel situation here, where not everyone will be happy with "the Fel random deck of chance, luck and eye movement". But this points to the problem with the current skill availability, where the fixed deck is very hindered by having less skill points to overcome it's less challenging combat style. Thus when this style is preferred to the beginner or new player, then it will take that player a longer time to acquire the skill points they need to overcome their chosen style of safe gaming, yet it can and will be done this way by many.



who played in trammel XD

what i can say to felluca/trammel in ultima online, that it was an awesome idea , (so pvp players are happy and pve players aswell)
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but they forgot about crafters and traders in this decission and implemented it horrible. they forgot to separate the economy from felluca and trammel
you could farm gold, vanq weapons and materials save in trammel , whch ruined every shop owner in felluca . who want to be a crafter if you not have clients , or when everyone underbid your prizes
thats why trammel was a bad idea and ruined the game !!!!! not because pvp and pve players got separated !!! if they would have implemented it that materials and vanq weapons codn´t be brought to felluca (by only allowing players to travel naked with moonstone and separate the bank) from trammel to felluca. tons of players woudnt have unsubbed !!!
felluca would have been much more populated , even pvp players abused to farm there mats in trammel so feluca was a bit too empty.


anyways pve and pvp players must be separated, thats the golden rule of a good mmo , everyone should be able to play his playstile and not get forced to live under rules he not like (open world pvp /loot)

today where we have a lot of bot programs, it will be even more important to separate those 2 economys from each other !!

and combat system must be fun aswell (especially basic attacks must give you a feel of satisfaction) see darksoals and co
15k players online on steam yesterday, at 4 am in the morning.

 

Increased focus cost is not a penalty. It is a way to balance a completely different play style. @Sarg Explained it very good on this post (on this same thread):

 

There is already a cooldown and lack of combos as balancing factors. I think a 50% increase in focus cost is a too much. As for skill points, I still assert that allowing you do stack multiple copies of a locked skill on top of each other to reduce the cooldown (not remove, reduce) by certain amount per copy, would encourage locked deck players to spend skill points on multiple copies as a balancing factor.

 

That is the first time i've noticed that suggestion from you and I gotta say its a really great idea if they stick with this deck system. It would also make it more easy to switch between deck and locked because the skill points spent would not be drastically different between the two.

 

I don't particularly dislike or particularly like the deck-based combat system. And, I'm aware that it still has to be tweaked and tuned. Still, having messed around with it for a couple of days during R9 I notice that the most effective way to go seems to be pure Dallas mode, with healing and maybe a stun or root and just letting the avatar whack away at the mobs with little or no intervention (except to heal) on my part. This is because the specialized attacks from the skill tree seemed to do no more damage than I would be doing by passively watching him whack away. Maybe I'm not using the attacks correctly, or perhaps they will be tuned better later on. And, while it was certainly fun to watch the special attacks, I just dont think they did (on average) any more damage than the non-special attacks. Anyone else notice this?

 

"I was noticing that also"
I noticed the same thing. It may be a math somewhere, but it wasn't enough for me to notice. I was looking at this and testing it. I did find that "at times" the special seemed to be doing a bit more, but surly not all the time.
I did find it funny that I could take down a monster with 2 coconuts in my hands almost as easy as having a short spear in my hand, but also that the coconuts (actually fists) seemed to do a better job at killing the monster while I was keeping in constant movement, more effectively than when I was standing fighting the same monster with a spear.
~Time Lord~

 

I've been playing combat games, MMOs in particular since Median59. I've also designed a number of user interfaces, including one what was fairly popular in the BBS days when I wrote Trade Wars 2002.

That being said, the R9, "Combat as a Deck of cards" design has to be the worst thing I've encountered in FRPG game to date. Attempting to have a plate wearer fight some skeletons was amazingly frustrating, non intuitive and worst of all, a huge disconnect in the immersion of the game world.

I can certainly appreciate that they're trying to do something different and I applaud that, but this deck concept ruins the immersion in a fight and takes the skill out of the hands of the player an leaves it to the whims of the Random Number Generator.

If they are dead set on this MTG style Deck of Cards interface, then I am damned sorry I pledged at Knight level for this game. What a waste.

 

I just want to be able to hit them without using a deck. I rarely see just a sword swing...which I thought was part of the auto attack. So my sword wold swing AND I had this random deck for specials.


I dunno..I'm still to new...