Tab target = easy mode in PvP

*shakes head sadly*

This thread is a classic example of why the PvP community in MMOs is just impossible to please... and perhaps even impossible to reason with. The original post makes an absurd claim that somehow forcing everyone to have to manually target is going to make it a more challenging game, the thread devolves into claims Shroud should be more like a number of different games, many of which aren't even in the same genre (Mortal Kombat? Really?), and it's not until Mad Jack comments that anyone even touches upon the main issue which makes it nothing more than wish fulfilment and ego stroking. Let me tease out the reality;

1.) PvPers want to win
2.) They will min/max their character, their game client, even their computer to give a slight edge over another.
3.) This will also include Macros, as Jack pointed out. If there's any way to automate a fight, they will. There are dedicated mice and keyboards and controllers specifically for that mindset indeed, mapping commands to in some case literally hundreds of buttons.
4.) Thus taking out tab targeting will just find it put back in unofficially by PvPers some other way if it gives any perceived benefit.
5.) Which leads into years of trash talking as people assume everybody else is using "crutch programs" etc...

Honestly, how can anyone even vaguely connected with gaming not be aware of this inevitable pattern? The original post just comes across as some insane level of self-importance, or worse, possibly a way to deliberately break the game for everyone else for the usual undeserved elitism...

... and only Mad Jack, a decent PvP type it seems, spots the nub of the matter and honestly addresses it; if people who don't have teenage level reflexes can't fight equally, how is that truly balanced PvP, and more importantly, how is it going to attract the on-average more mature MMO crowd to it if they can't compete with people who, if they were honest, would be cheating like the devil behind the scenes anyway? I suspect the hope of those asking for it is that they wouldn't, so they get the advantage of youth...

And there's so many more honest ways to balance a PvP fight than just twitch reflexes... which you'll value when your reactions start to slow too, but you can still take on entire groups of opponents at a time by fighting smarter.

But if people really, REALLY want a way to use targeting that way; perhaps take a trick from War Thunder, a WW2 f2p game, where you can Lock Target to the unit closest on a simple X/Y axis on the screen to where the cursor is. Map it to a mouse button and away you go, but it requires pointing your nose to pick up the one you want. But do it in combination with tab and all other forms of targeting; we're dealing with magic here, not iron sight gaming remember?

 

im fine with macros they cant be prevented , aiming cant be macroed ,

what is a different question i wanted to get answered at the hangout

is cheating possible? hope everything is server side calculated , and aimbots and speedhacks are impossible , thats smth important to have with an aimed based system

but i think positive about it, because in ultima were no cheaters only macro guys , never seen an invinible char in ultima, or who is 10 times that fast, or who 1 shot you , other games cheats not work are league of legends (server calculated aswell)

aiming with your mouse is really not hard and possible with lag and you dont need the reflexes of god (dont mean aiming like a shooter that you have to aim at his head or whatever , just somehow in his direction. its not that you 1 shot someone like in a shooter where every millisecond counts

 

Cheating is always possible, and every single online game that ever existed had to deal with cheating. You even cite Ultima Online (which, as I recall, had a speed hack, and certainly many more) and League of Legends in which I actually witnessed cheating once (some player starting with 1k gold instead of 475g), though yes, given the incredible amount of LoL games played, it probably qualifies as one of the "legitest" game ever.

EDIT : I even remember a ban wave on a game mod that probably didn't have more than 500 players worldwide, and in which your account could basically accumulate XP indefinitely. So people lost sometimes hundreds of hours worth of XP because they cheated only to have bragging rights over 500 people worldwide.

 

i think there 40 percent of the players of sandboxy games and mmo are pvp fans arround 60 pve

but ingame are 5 percent pvp and 95 percent pve player,

its because the game get developed the features first, which pve guys are interested in, like housing , dungeon, workbanches , which they done exceptional so they got a lot of backers
but half of the backers are still missing and they will join later maybe , if we get the right combat system and freedom
i mean which true pvper donate 500 dollar + for a house he might not use if he dislike pvp ???

think about that , this game should have to be made attractive for both sites
as i toild most pvp guys stop reading further if some words like tab targeting or auto attacks is falling, on the other hand i still think the pve guys would play the game if it would be aimiung based and melee combos get added instead of auto attacks
when you are older or have no reflexes join a guild with a lot of members , be friendly to them and they guard you.

 

So much this, I like PvP, but those who do it seem the most egocentric, not all of course but there are some really entitled people out there. I actually think MMO players, including myself in that ofc, are probably the most impossible gamers to please as well mind.

 

we will see the hope is dyeing at least (sadly my questions not got answered in hangout,

a good sanboxy game with good combat and freedom is really smth the communty wait for ages mortal online is just too buggy with 2 developers

see embers of caerus a lot of people backed it because of player driven economy and open world pvp and it seems it was a ripoff and internet site dissapeared even after succesful kick starter , life is feudal (no 3ds max specialists when i look at animations from videos)

so my last hope is Shroud of the Avatar and gloria victis http://www.indiedb.com/games/gloria-victis (sota from uo developers which have budget and good animators , or gloria victis with some developers of the witcher )

hope both or one game will fit the pvp players

but there is a reason all of those sandbox games have non-target combat in common , because they know what sandboxers and crafters want even when they are low budget , because they know the big drawbacks of target combat

• Great PvP | Fight to the death, loot defeated enemies with an innovative looting system, participate in knight tournaments, epic realm vs realm wars where armies collide and castle/city sieges.
• Realistic Combat | Engage in action-based, non-target combat where your skills and tactics matter, using weapons and armour modelled upon authentic medieval equipment.

• Sandbox Crafting System | Create your own items with Gloria Victis' ten different crafts, in which your success depends on your skill rather than luck. Specialise in one profession, becoming one of the crafting masters shaping your nation’s economy or be a self-reliant jack of all trades.
• Non-instanced Housing System | Build your own house, set up your village and fortify it together with your guild members. Besiege the castles of your enemies and rule over large territories.

things i wish every mmo would follow

here some pics for the pvp folks when they not get satisfied maybe this could be something when they get the combat fully developed

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/screenshot000d5q3s2yljo.jpg
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/picture114xz0mq2peid.jpg
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/65u1ahile8k.jpg
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/4p6oyr50fzk.jpg
http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/dsdsdcd0ezrtyn2.jpg

gave me the feel of uo first time i loged in more then from Sota ,except housing which is simly awesome !!!

anyways enough from chatting Xd cya release 9

 

This is where these things always end up, right here at a stand still, PVP and PVE will never get everything they want, ever the saying goes "you cant please everyone!" which is true, no matter what direction the game goes there will always be someone that hates it or doesn't agree with it. the best thing i ever heard any of our Devs say, was when Darkstarr said.... "PVP and PVE will both be equally unhappy with combat". That is probably the most truthful statement ever. So to counter the distaste with things you'll just have to learn to adjust, Neither of us will ever get the whole game the way we want! We just need to accept that! Try and enjoy the game the best you can with what you have, if you are still unhappy, there are plenty of games that cater to either side PVP or PVE out there, research and you'll find them.