Immersion Breaking Jack O' Lantern Mask

Again they are so damn common in every game now adays. All they would accomplish is letting everyone know they A) They really like Halloween and B) They had an extra 10 bucks to blow. A pumpkin head isn't anything to get jelly over thats for sure.

 

Nah they don't bug me that much...just the attitude.

 

Nope.. that's not what they said. They played it off as "what? I don't know what you're talking about" "Because lawyers" to me is not an argument. In fact I see adhering to the letter of what Portalarium and lawyers say is just the opposite of adaptation. Lore should not be defined by lawyers who have no say in the story. I do not see that as a valid reason for anything. If it's not the same world then there would be no need to wipe out the history.

You see you're taking a very literal and unbending approach as far as I can tell. I take a very adaptive approach. If something is contradictory I'll compare and take what I feel makes the most sense and abandon what makes no sense. So say we MUST be humans from Earth makes no sense because the world has had travel between worlds other than Earth.. That vision represents intention rather than established lore. Everything about the world including remnants of the virtue system says "This is the continuation of Ultima".. it's the same world as Ultima. Devs out of game saying it's not because lawyers say so, contradicts the world they made. You might say.. that can't be because lawyers made them say so. We are never going to reconcile the differences in our views. Of course we don't need to. You play your way and I'll play mine. Neither of us needs to adapt to the other view.

 

At this time single player old school RPG's are making a big comeback into the gaming Market.
If this is going to do well with any of those players, a world they feel is real to the Story is a BIG plus.

We have The Witcher 3, Divinity OS, Pillars o E, Sword Coast, The Elder scrolls series up to Skyrim players that could be a big market for SotA.
The trouble is if they do the single player offline first, then decide to try the MMO what's been introduced to SotA online will be a massive shock to those players.
Or worse attempt to do the Story in MMO and see the online SIM world and they will be lost forever.

 

There's a line that borders realism and fun that video games (and other mediums like literature) have to walk, and I presume the OP understands that as well.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the OP is calling for a hyper-realistic game. He is calling for an immersive and internally consistent game. The question is do character's running around with jack-o'-lanterns for heads meld well with the culture and world of Shroud of The Avatar? I'm leaning towards no. I also share the same worry that the OP has about them being year-round, turning the game into Disney World.

 

I don't see immersion as a binary concept. I'd say Oculus is more immersive than a monitor & keyboard & mouse, and what you described would be the most immersive. I'd say 5.1 surround sound is more immersive than stereo and mono would be less immersive than either. Then you have to factor in the quality of the visuals and sound in themselves.

I feel like you're both doing the same thing (which by the way isn't a bad thing). You're expressing to the developers that you'd enjoy wearing and seeing giant flaming pumpkin heads on avatars--while he is expressing to the developers that he wouldn't enjoy wearing or seeing giant flaming pumpkin heads on avatars. If the developers go with you, then he'll be upset. If they go with him, then you'd be upset.

 

And Hollywood. Okay, L.A.

 

I agree to an extent. Since I am attached to the game, I do hope that we don't go so far that we lose the theme -- what there is of one -- by diluting it to the point that one can't really describe what it is. This might seem like a radical statement but I don't want to see SOTA become a patchwork hodgepodge of all kinds of different ideas and objects. The games I like to play (like Witcher, &c.) have a central theme that doesn't have things that don't fit with that theme, and that throw it out of balance. I was really put off when UO started putting things in the game that didn't fit with Lord British's original design. It weakened the game, IMO. It lost it's identity. After that, I did lose immersion and finally lost pleasure in playing.

 

Other then the trademark regulations on the whole "KFC" - This is exactly what i was referring to ~laughs~ I shall point and giggle, as it looks funny, yet judge in any way that says "no they can not do this"? Why? To each their own device (even if humans are darned funny lot!). Their own ward robe. Should they wish to do such, why are we to say if they may or may not?

Do you voice your opinion on the other side of the rift so loud and boisterously when you do not agree with a child dressing as Jason or Michael Myers? I would suspect you are not in agreement with these people existing in your "world" yet you accept it but once a year. Why for then would you not accept that these same people but once a year might decide to stick their head in a pumpkin (picking the seeds and gunk out of your hair afterward is going to be fun.. good luck to you!) or a bucket.

((Clarity before someone sets me ablaze)) - the use of the word "you" here does not depict or direct the attention to one person or another, it is a general word used for any person that it may or may not fit depending on who the reader is... Starting to think everything i say these days needs to come with a disclaimer.

*this* Amen!

Why for exactly? We are in the age of Clock/Steam punk.... Why for would anyone be staked or set aflame? The times of these is set to a time when such devices existed. Clockpunk/Steampunk is depicted as that of a technological age break through (gears, cogs, flying machines, radios... ).. Perhaps I am missing your point but where would any find an issue with such devices.


And just to add to this as an exclamation point to how much I appreciate the Dia de los Muertos. I very well may wear mine year round... Is this to break your immersion? No... not at all... it is to ADD TO mine (my character persona)

 

Shroud of the Avatar is based upon a fictional world. Aliens flying, firearms, flaming coconut bras (they need flames), kittens shooting lasers (that would sell a lot in the store), glowing pumpkin heads, or any other item in game can be imagined into existence in our virtual world. Discovery and creativity are two major selling points of Shroud.

One could easily imagine seeing another player with any item they do not agree with as a case of a foreign item from a foreign land. I think of Crocodile Dundee and his reaction to NYC. I think of my personal reaction of visiting NYC, not a visit goes by, I fail to see something strange. Only a lack of player imagination prevents acceptance of anything in our imaginary virtual world.

If I became overly sensitive to everything I did not agree with, my only safe spot would be in my own home. When fellow gamers try to dictate what purely cosmetic items are acceptable in a fictional world based upon a personal opinion I find this offensive. We live in a world where far too many try far too frequently to enforce their beliefs upon others.

As stated, I had no intention of buying those Halloween masks. I'm not a big fan of the holiday, and agree the old pumpkin head mask is way overplayed. Yet if a reaction is gained by an item, it instantly gains a perceived value. The fact some in the community are trying to deter the item further increases my desire to show financial support for item I would otherwise not buy.

I tend to believe if the Halloween masks were given out free, there would have been no complaints, other than "WHEN DO I GET IT?" The coconut bras and flaming horseheads are extremely "unbelievable" but extremely popular. While not completely free, a $5 pledge for all of those items to obtain free was an incredible promotion. If anyone feels the "free" items are far too immersion breaking to own, I'd be happy to take them off your hands in game after release. You can pay me a small disposal fee, for my troubles. Any takers?

I thank Portalarium for their continued creativity. I thank them for not immediately shutting down a thread with some controversial content. This type of discussion should be done by the community as we do all need to "live" together. While not always in agreement, we should be able to respect each other and their opinions.

Now please developers, bring the laser kitty to the add-on store.

 

So a fictional world is really just a set of propositions. Some of which may match up with the actual world's. For example, there is gravity and humans in SotA. A fictional world can be completely otherworldly and yet still be self-consistent, making the fictional world believable. If a fictional world isn't believable then it's harder to get involved with it.

Look at Tolkien's novels. One of the major reasons why they're so popular is because they're rich and self-consistent, making them believable. The world Tolkien created looks like a world that could actually exist.

I guess my main point is I disagree with your idea that because something is fictional then that means one can go nuts by pulling stuff out of thin air and injecting it into the world without affecting its quality.

 

Disagreements aside I take exception to this notion that expressing one's disagreement or dislike for something is an attempt to dictate anything. I wasn't aware that disagreeing was the same as dictating. There's no need for that kind of language that borders on vilifying the opposing view. Then again I did skip the first 7 pages but still..

Not to speak for anyone else.. but having a price tag is entirely irrelevant to me.. well mostly. I dislike the gimmicky nature of it all but I will concede SOME of it can be explained in the context of Avatar communities. ie Outlanders making things for Outlanders.. but then how they heck does anyone in New Britannia know when Halloween is? Unless Lord British forced them to adopt a clone of the Earth calendar I suppose but that's somewhat off topic.

At any rate.. I've never tried to discourage anyone from buying stuff. But if the devs really wanted to be creative they could come up with things that actually fit the culture of the world they're building rather than mimicking Earth culture. What's so creative about copying what already exists? Anyway.. not keen on the back and forth.. I just think claiming who disagree with you are trying to dictate stuff is an unfair comment to make.

 

There's always someone around expressing the widest possible views. There are some in the community for whom the word of lawyers and Portalarium is absolute.. as was expressed earlier.. Portalarium put them in the store therefore it's lore friendly. Then there's "it's magic" or "fantasy" or whatever so absolutely anything goes.. and everything in between. Personally I find both extremes to be frustrating. Especially when the only rational is "because Portalarium doesn't own the rights to Ultima" or "alternative universe" or "because magic".. Fortunately at least that kind of stuff doesn't normally turn in in casual RP so I expect we're not going to be having those kinds of discussions in-game. Thank goodness.

 

Like I said, I cant wait for FPO. Those that want to not care about anything and wish to dance on tables all day, shall be able to do it. I will not have to see them.

 

Really?
A 13 page post about the "immersion breaking pumpkins"?
I mean....really!?
What the.....

 

I think the Monty Python pic edited with pumpkin masks pretty much says it all.

 

I have not seen one NPC wearing a silly hat or Pumpkin head,living in a Flying machine or using radio's, prancing about with a clicking a pair coconuts, wearing or using any item from the add on shop, that seem to be thrown in with no thought of the actual game world we are in.
I thought Steam punk was 19th Century period not 12th, and were do I find the Radio Station Building is it situated next to the Robot tour guide factory.

So yes personally I do find an issue were we have a Medieval world setting,weapons & armour, and then from no where Robotic guides, flying boats appear and then the Shop as Steam punk related add-ons for cosmetic reasons and 21st Century add-ons Christmas, Halloween for cosmetic reasons.
SotA is still in DEVELOPMENT, but a few seem to think they are playing it now, and keep asking for more stuff to be created so they can carry on playing in Alpha.

 

I am telling you what that's telling me.
I am going to buy DOZEN of packs and gift a few of them away EVERY halloween so Razi can start a absurd post like that every year.
Wow this community has a wired focus sometimes.

 

I'm amused you only find it an issue now because that ship sailed long long long ago, it's just no one really noticed at the time - or just didn't really care. It is something I have commented on myself and is one of my main criticisms I have about SotA . So these halloween items are a very minor thing to me in the grand scheme of things. And you know... headless mask... =P

 

What's so absurd about wanting be immersed in a game? We all have our preferences and priorities. I find cartoonish, oversized pumpkin masks and headless masks absurd and out of place.