R36 Recipe changes have really screwed the pooch

I can understand that in order to make crafting more meaningful a crafter shouldn't just be able to log into a web site and get the recipe for anything that can be made. That's not the issue.
The problem is that the new system posits that all crafters are morons.
I have recipes for metal bindings ... I needed to make a new version using a different alloy. Instead of allowing me to simply use the standard recipe with the new alloy, I had to stop what I was doing and go out and buy a new version of it.
The same is true for straps, and who knows how many other things.
You had the presence of mind to make the recipes for things like armor generic, but for bindings and straps and the like you make us buy duplicate recipes?
What's the point? Are crafting recipes a new gold sink?
Crafting is rewarding, but it's also tedious. This sort of thing isn't helping.
Once I've learned how to make something, making a different version of it with the simple substitution of a different base material should be discoverable
I''m just sayin'
Sil

 

yes.. i like the discoverability of things like the stone smithing and rug making .. In an older thread (before the changes) I offered the suggestion :

keep the system as it is now, but sell blank recipe cards for the same price as written ones.

give all recipes the trait "discoverable" or "not discoverable"

keep certain "rare" or npc given recipes undiscoverable

if the recipe has the trait "discoverable" AND the player has the blank card equipped, AND the right ingredients on the table AND the skill level required: success.
then the blank recipe card is consumed and the player gains the appropriate recipe in their book.

 

The biggest problem I have with the discovery changes is that they make community resources obsolete.
There are several crafting resouce websites out there for SotA and I greatly value those guys' work. Now I fear that this kind of effort will stop and I don't think that's a good thing.
But hey, I'm one of those "stat geeks" who loves to play with numbers, maybe I should stop worrying and "just play the game" (sorry, couldn't stop myself)

 

Yepp this it T O T A L Y bad programing, and a result of knee jerk reactions - hopefully it will get fixed with an intelligent design.

 

Hey guys, where does it say this is the absolute final finished form?

I think this is a step in the right direction, but a few more things need to be filled out. Don't just say something sucks and you hate it without some kind of constructive suggestions.

It would be good if discoverabiliy depended on your skill level and the recipe's skill level. Until recently there weren't many recipes with a skill level, so a lot more of that needs to be added.

Side-learning related recipes should also affect this such that if you know, say, one of the gem recipes, it should be easier (though not automatic) to discover the related ones. There should probably also be a lower percentage chance of getting your first craft (the one that puts it into your recipe book) to succeed.

Wiki lists of recipes aren't useless, you can still use them to know what to grab before you go to the crafting table, or even which sub-recipes to buy (like glass sheets for that new greenhouse row house). Most importantly, if you can't just buy the recipe, the way you acquire it can be documented on the wiki page.

 

I also feel this was just a band aid to slow things into the next step.
I m all for having rare recipies n such only being found.. or one time use or something.. but yea i hear ya.. 5 kinda lumber. 5 kinda straps.. 5 kinda yards..
I think new players wont hate it as they will scoop one up here n there as they make em for first time. but think rest of us were to comfy with making w.e we want off a wiki.

 

I thought through the implications of losing discoverability a few weeks ago when Scottie was talking to me about regional variations of clothing. Then I realized you should be able to craft them, and what's the point of being able to craft an Ardoris-specific clothing variant if you can just throw crap on a crafting table over in Mud after getting the materials list from a wiki? You should have to get your ass down to Ardoris and find someone to teach it to you.

I still think that slight variations (different ingots, different gems) should have a discoverability bonus for knowing the similar ones.

Also, teachability should maybe have some extra skill levels needed. You just learned something you could barely learn? And now you're going to teach someone else right away? I think there should be at least a few points (5?) of proficiency over the minimum to re-teach a recipe. Not that there aren't still good reasons for recipes that you can never teach, but I think that's better than simply making some recipes not re-teachable.

 

Crowfall already designed around this and it's great. Recipes only require "ore" or "hide", and it's up to the player to decide what kind of ore or hide to use.

It only requires the devs to add different materials with different properties that plug right into the system, instead of building an entirely different recipe for every variation.

This should be the new standard in MMO crafting.

 

IMO, "community resources" that allow players to do an end run around designed game mechanics aren't part of the community.

All good in my book because I don't personally value their cheat sheets at all. Good riddance.

DISCLAIMER: These are personal opinions and do not represent any factual information or any intent to pass off the above as fact. Any persons considering a post telling another player their opinions are wrong should direct themselves to the following website: http://www.dictionary.com and search for the word 'opinion'.

 

This is exactly what I was hoping for ... a rational approach to material substitution ... assuming that it applies above the refining stage and includes finished goods and components.

If Crowfall is open to suggestion, how about making things like bows modifiable by sufficiently skilled carpenters so you can replace a bowstring without having to deforest an entire scene to make an entire new bow. It might not be practical for most melee weapons, but a bow is a bit of a different case. And crafted arrows that contribute attributes based on the metal in the head and the wood in the shaft? We can't socket them so let us add attributes another way. Right now there's no point in crafting arrows but this would give crafters a whole new revenue stream.
I'm just sayin'
Sil

 

As a returning player, I found the changes to be very disconcerting. Simple recipes should be discoverable. They talked about this on the livestream last night and seemed happy where it is.

I understand that they want to maintain a rarity and exclusivity on crafting certain things, but this seems like a serious overreaction. Instead of making almost everything require a recipe (why do I need a recipe to craft wolf meat? or any butchery, for that matter, unless it drops off some elite, special creature), recipes should be required for rare items. Special items requiring special skill. As a person who has crafted in almost every MMORPG for the past 20 years, this change feels incredibly backward.

 

Its not just crafting that feels backwards

 

If this is how the recipes will continue to be, then the merchant needs to sell a bundle of related recipes for the same price. There is no reason to have to buy multiple variations, we already have merchant bundles (like reagents and arrows), so multiple recipes should be easy.

 

My opinions in a nutshell.....

Gold sinks won't make recipes rare. Simple quests won't make recipes rare. The problem is that the system wasn't well thought out prior to persistence. Skill levels should be hard to gain. Recipes should be based on skill level. And being a GM should mean something.

The damage is done in terms of rarity for current recipes. Anyone who was going to be serious about crafting learned them prior to this release. Anyone who was too lazy to learn them all bought them. Anyone who hasn't purchased them all at this point will likely be focused on doing so now.

So nothing currently in game will be rare and should be considered part of a catalog of base recipes. Base recipes should just remain discoverable. You're just punishing new players with a high gold sink.

Now is the time to fix the system for future recipes.

 

Since I came back after some time, this is where I am - being punished because others have already gotten them. Why should I have to spend tens of thousands of gold on recipes simply because I'm new?

Despite only being back for a week, I've thought every time I've played "I cannot believe this game went 'persistent' already. It still needs a lot of tuning." Early persistence is normally done just before release. I realize I'm fairly new, so I may not "get it", but as I answer questions to people newer than I, I look around and see voids that need to be filled and not a game ready to be put on the store shelf. The situation feels a lot of like what happened with Glitch, although that was far more polished when it closed up.

 

Check your recipes..alot of them are teachable so hook up with friends and exchange recipes. Some are not teachable but at least you can swap recipes with folks and save a bit of gold.

 

I agree that variations of a recipe you already know should be discoverable. Keep the higher new recipes as purchasable, thats fine, but once I know how to make binding I should be able to make any binding.

 

I like the idea, but it feels burdensome as a newbie to spend thousands of gold for simple recipes. Whole items are sold from the vendors for less than the recipe cost.

 

It really does.

I've spent over 40k over the past week on recipes. My main reason for doing this is listening to other players complaining about the recipes. I have my Hospitaller flag on and get asked now and again at the crafting tables for recipes and I've helped them out. Even with that 40k, I have a tiny fraction of the recipes. That represents me getting every alchemy, carpentry, and cooking recipe I could at my low skill of those.

 

See and i dont feel for you though.
The game was never inteded tht you be a master crafter across the board so easily.
I have a guildy who managed to gm 3 of the craft trees and will be done 4th in under 2 weeks.
This means average player ( which is true ) can run every craft tree already, entirely too easily.
I mean ****. I have no interest in crafting yet im almost gm x2 just from self gearing.
This was a step towards making people specialize a bit. The fact it barely slows people is an annoyance.
Yall wonder why no one buys gear off other players. Lol.

They need to make recipies un teachable and high skill to use. Add some value to the guys who put x10 time into a crafting tree then the rest of us.