No Sexual Objectification of Female Characters ? (Dev) Replied

Point is more it should be an option. No one would PLAN to run around with it long term but it's not like it's something you can plan in a tense situation. If you have to escape from a dungeon and it's the only shield you find. Then trek across miles of dangerous wilderness and you still haven't found a better or even a worse shield to replace it with... You're going to wind up wandering through town with it before you find an armour shop/vendor to get another one. Or you can leave it lying there and take your chances without it. It's the availability of the choice that makes it interesting, not whether you actually take it or not or are proud of it.

 

Ok I'll give you that.

The one problem though is that the game is 3D.. while this is no big deal for genderless equipment.. in terms of armor (particularly on the torso) requires both a male and female version of the 3d mesh in question. If the item is female specific then in order to allow a guy to wear it then a male version has to be made which takes time and money.

One alternative may be to make it more genderless via some sort of neutral naming like.. a leather top.. for women it's the leather bra but for guys it's more like something Conan would wear or something.

 

I think just sensible armour, clothing, and body/appearance options is all some of us want. Key word being "options". I don't want to take away anyone elses options, but I don't want to have to be someone's fetish ingame either.

As long as those options are there, everyone is satisfied.

 

I think there should be options to change height/weight/hair color, etc. that will aid in the non-objectification of female characters. However, the main matter in objectification of female characters is MALE individuals running around as Female characters which is the biggest sham ever. i understand if there is a preconditional sexual orientation that may have a preferred sex of character, but men masquerading around as women is purely objectionable.

There should be an update soon on what is considered visually appropriate for male and female characters alike.

 

There's an arguement to made on both sides in regards to playing cross gender. When the playing goes out of their way to hide the fact they're a guy playing a female character and especially trying to engage in.. certain things we don't need to go into.. yes that's objectionable. If they let it be plainly known they're a guy who is simply RPing a character they like that doesn't run around dressed like a stripper and avoiding said things we don't need to get into.. is that really so bad?

There's a full spectrum of individuals out there. I agree there are certain limits but I'm not prepared lump everyone into the same groups.

 

"When the playing goes out of their way to hide the fact they?re a guy playing a female character and especially trying to engage in.. certain things we don?t need to go into.. yes that?s objectionable"

- Why is that objectionable?

"If they let it be plainly known they?re a guy who is simply RPing a character they like that doesn?t run around dressed like a stripper and avoiding said things we don?t need to get into.. is that really so bad?
"

- Why should that person let it be plainly known? Sorry but why would anyone want to play a game which is at the mercy of someone else's comfort?

I don't think there is an argument, people should be allowed to play whatever they want to play, and I actually retract my earlier concession to agree with OP, because the title of this thread clearly states that females should not be objectified - I say, why shouldn't they? If you have the option to do other things as well I don't see the problem, so even if the OP agrees with me, the title of this thread still says otherwise.

 

Ok then.. looks like we do need to "get into" certain things.

I knew a guy once who played a female character who hated to let it be known that he was a guy. He roleplayed enticing other guys into sexual situations.. some of whom were minors. Now I did not personally witness exactly how far those situations went.. but do you seriously think that is appropriate? People in those situations tend to take it kinda personally when they find out. Even if it's just flirting.

I knew another guy who RPd a female character just to cyber with other guys online. Naturally without telling them he was a guy. Do you really think that is appropriate? 'Cause I don't.

If you're up front and honest about who you are then the other players are making an informed decision how they want to interact with you.

 

If you want to start sexting in game with someone you don't know, you deserve what you get, which might be some 50 year old fat guy gaming in his underwear, pretending to be a hot chick.

 

"He roleplayed enticing other guys into sexual situations.. "
- Sounds fine to me..


"some of whom were minors."
- How do you know?


" do you seriously think that is appropriate?"
- If they were really minors, then no, but for different reasons.

1. The kid shouldn't be playing such a game in the first place without parental supervision, which isn't the responsibility of the Game Developer, nor anyone else who plays the game.

2. Its text, calm down. So what if Johnny of some 15 years old has a quick "rod-polishing" session over some fantasy in a video game? It's called hormones and trying to pretend it isn't, is just missing the point.
There are some problems regarding your child not meeting up in real life with such individuals (honestly, most RP'ers won't get that far even if they are rp'ing sex), but then we're back to the parental problem.

"People in those situations tend to take it kinda personally when they find out. Even if it?s just flirting."

Its a lesson of life and of RP, if you can't separate (or can't learn how to do so) you probably shouldn't be RP'ing in the first place.

"I knew another guy who RPd a female character just to cyber with other guys online. Naturally without telling them he was a guy. Do you really think that is appropriate? ?Cause I don?t."

Of course its appropriate, it takes 2 people to have a conversation. If you venture into that part of Roleplaying ("that part" being Cyber-sex) you've got nobody to blame but yourself if the person on the other end isn't who the say they are, thats why it's RP'ing and that's why it's Fantasy my friend. You want to be sure? Get in a skype call or Teamspeak, or something..
In short, you made the choice to be a participant in such matters.

"If you?re up front and honest about who you are then the other players are making an informed decision how they want to interact with you."

And some people will be up front and honest, but you can't (nor should you try to) force everyone to do that, that's why it's Role Playing (If you can forgive sounding like a broken record at this point).

Nobody should, and certainly many wouldn't, play a game at the mercy of your personal comfort zone and I think it's unfair and inappropriate for you to ask anyone to do so.

 

Neverminding the fact that in the case of the one guy he knew the player was a minor. So it's perfectly acceptable to decieve people into those situations because it's the victims fault for being stupid is what you guys are telling me? This somehow makes it unobjectable behavior to engage in?

There are some lines that simply should not be crossed folks. Having others be stupid enough to fall prey to 'certain situations' is not a means of justification for a person's actions. I have no further comment.

 

Umm, this isn't the thread for this. The OP doesn't want to see objectification of female avatars, something I am 100% in agreement with. I am for a healthy choice of options and clothing choices to suit.

I don't want to see only cosmo supermodel builds as the only body choice, and I don't wanna see chainmail bikinis and boob tubes as the only warrior and mage choices for female avatars. I want sensible clothing choices.

But you guys are getting into a whole other debate and while you may be talking about males creating female avatars just to "cyber" or whatever, it goes deeper than that.

Sure, you will have males play female avatars, but what is the alternative? You force people to play their actual gender? And that'd mean some kind of verification system too? How would it be verified? What if your husband or boyfriend pays your gaming bill? and vice versa?

First of all there is a privacy issue. If you force people to play their "credit card" gender or whatever, you are confirming their gender irl for everyone. Not always a good thing.

For example: I have friends who play male avatars just so they don't get hassled by guys in game. Sexism is a huge problem on the internet because despite popular belief, misogyny hasn't gone away.

Then there are people with gender identity issues. This is a VERY difficult topic and I'm not even gonna go there. Neither should SotA because it is just bad press in the making.

 

If male players mostly played male characters in UO, it's the exception to just about every other MMO.

1) If you're playing an elf, you're either a girly looking girl or a girly looking guy. I realize there wont be elves in this game but they're 80%+ female in games that do.

2) In just about any Korean MMO, the females are just drawn better and nearly everyone plays them.

3) If the RP of the game isn't all that immerse and since the game is basically 3rd person, you're staring at your back side the whole time (aka the Laura Croft effect)

4) I'm sure some people want to play the scam for free lewt or "you got beat by a little girl" but I think that's secondary to any of the above.

I've played a dozen or so MMOs and tend to be an altaholic...so I've tried every race/sex/class combination more ways than I can count.

 

@Ashlynn_Ler As an interesting fact, most asian MMOs actually do require you to play the gender you are irl. They verify it by requiring you to submit your government issued ID number to play. I don't know what the penalty is for using someone else's government issued card is, but I'd hate to let someone else use my Social Insurance Number for anything.

 

Don't worry that conversation is over as far as I'm concerned. I'm not advocating forcing anyone to do anything. I was just trying to point out 1: Some things are too much and 2: Not everyone is like that. I think it was a response to a generalization that was made.

Some people RP their characters very well cross-gender or not without doing anything 'inappropriate'.. some not so much and I've no issue at all with that first group. To them I say.. play on!

 

Like I said, this is a whole other debate and has little to do with the objectification of female avatars. It is seriously another issue.

 

"he knew the player was a minor."

- How do you know?

"So it?s perfectly acceptable to decieve people into those situations"

- Yes

" because it?s the victims fault for being stupid"

- So now your problem is not Age, its not the act itself, its that people deceived and thus "victims", you may have confused others with this kind of rhetoric. I can't say that I'm convinced though.

"There are some lines that simply should not be crossed folks. "

- In speech? No and I will thank you not to presume to try and define those lines on my behalf, nor attempt to restrict it. Your attempt at an axiomatic statement is duly dismissed.

"Having others be stupid enough to fall prey to ?certain situations? is not a means of justification for a person?s actions."

- It's you who has the disrespectful inclination to assume that everyone is a "victim" or "prey", failing to recognize something very simple and obvious, most people who go through the paces of cyber-sex, enjoy themselves and don't consider themselves victims.

 

I agree with Leslee's original post as long as it applies to both female and male characters and with one caveat - the "game rating police" outrank the "fashion police" when it comes to video games.

What is allowed for player attire and attributes will most likely be dictated by the "game rating police" and the audience to which SOTA is being marketed.

 

hmm I doubt that. If you look at his past work, this has never really been an issue with RG.

 

Wow, never expected to find such a homophobic/transgender phobic thread here.

Sure it's called an RPG, ie ROLL playing game and maybe some people LIKE roll playing as the opposite sex/gender, some may even like roll playing sex as the opposite sex/gender, who gives a toss. Does it really effect you THAT much?

If people are grooming minors that's a different matter but that depends on KNOWING they are minors in the first place.

As for the opening post, as someone else said, why you not calling out for fat guys running around too? And not as bad guys only either, cuts both ways

 

Personally, I'd just like to see a relative degree of realism and maturity in the game, which would lend the appropriate atmosphere. A fantasy game by definition can't be completely realistic, but the intent with Ultima games was for them to "feel" real, at the least, and be based on Medieval folk ways.

That would exclude "boob armor" which people here are talking about; it also exclude armor that is designed to look "bad-ass". I loved Skyrim, but I was disappointed by the fact that it both had boob armor and also "bad-ass" armor at the higher levels. It didn't even end up looking very good. I preferred wearing the leather, chain, and plate armor in Skyrim because it looked so much better - more polished - than the lame attempts to be bad-ass. But more importantly, it felt cartoonish in a world that otherwise felt real and alive.

And for that reason, I'm disappointed with the concept art so far, because they show the same problem. The weapons are also over-sized, which is also cartoonish in the same way.

I would love if the artists did some background study on fashion in the Middle Ages, btw.

As for what the OP is talking about, its up to the ambitions of the designers on whether they want to include fat and ugly options in the game ; although I'd note that they aren't included for men either. I would at most ask for maturity in this area too.