A Changed Perspective on Release (rmt)

I think we better go to bed and start this again tomorrow. I don't want to be held responsible for triggering this crisis.

You also won't drag me into politics, ultima is a game ABOUT ethics, period.

There are no real ethics in capitalism, but what is legal in capitalism is ethical. The bankers who created the 2008 housing bubble also probably think they were legal *cough* ethical.

Yeah right, I'm going to bed peace yall.

 

lol, redfish always gets those

 

ya but, can you tell us about grits?

 

Of course...

 

Actually the Ultimas are about virtues which are different from ethics. Virtue is behavior showing high moral standards. Ethics is moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity. Virtue is the actual action where as Ethics are the reason for the action. Ones Ethics can be completely corrupt while still being Virtuous. A perfect example of this is a thief who steals to feed a child. The action of stealing is unethical since it is illegal but the action was done for a virtuous reason feeding a child.

 

All in good fun indeed, it sounds very serious because we roleplayers tend to sound more serious than we truely are.

King Gariott has asked us to be ourselves, well I speak only for myself, who values hard work and devotion over all.

Since all ultimas and then Ultima Online and then Tabula Rasa has all taught me the same lessons in virtue and ethics, I can't help but voice my concern again. Pointing out my obvious lack of resource and time will not help quell my vehemence.

 

You don't want me to go to bed do you

So we roleplayers sound serious, but thats why people are magnetized to our opinions, we truely embody our ideals and principles, in the present moment.

Lets take your example Milady :

A thief who steals to feed a child. Good. Cool.

Who does he steal from ? Does he steal from another person that "looks" like he's doing ok but behind the scenes he's struggling ? Or does he steal from someone that has so much gold and ALSO brags about it in the streets, giving the thief proof enough that this amount won't be missed ? Do you still call him a thief then ?

That changes the degree of ethics, and the degree of virtue.

Thats the shades of grey the game propose we find out. Hence the dev's stance on "not interfering".

You make your choices I will make mine, and if you're worried that I delude myself, then I appreciate your concern doesn't ethical hedonism ring a bell ?

 

I would love to see now those who proclaimed some of our community members were doing something not allowed.

The truth has spoken and now we all know who was doing the things right and who was just trying to fu** another community player. Lesson learned.

 

Was thinking the exact same thing myself...

 

Oh yes I'm totally ok with the two types being explored in the game that makes it a lot of fun and interesting. It's just interesting that we don't apply the same virtue/ethics to RMT. For instance. I bought a metro city to have a place for my guild ORC to call it's own. I spent real money for it and my reasons were both ethical and virtuous. So on the same thinking if someone buys a spear to be able to do better in fights so they can play with their friends with the time they have. That should also be considered virtuous and ethical. They have a positive reason for buying with RMT and they are following the law so it's ethical. So explain to me why bringing up ethics or virtues changes the equation for RMT?

 

I just think it’s funny nothing actually changed, but a whole lot of people are back up in arms.

 

Certainly not

The advent of cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin will further simplify these type of transactions. Playing future MMO's might actually earn you crypto-coins which in turn can be used to buy digital or even physical goods. I think that's why RG is very interested in Etherium, it will be one of the possible cornerstones of an augmented reality wherein digital activities in the digital game or physical activities in RL will intertwine in a hybrid digital/physical economy.

I'm afraid RMT is here to stay, the barriers to it become are becoming less and less and will virtually disappear once cryptocurrencies take hold in the gaming world.

 

Amen! (Not an ounce of sarcasm intended, you're preaching to the choir.) - I wish my English was smooth enough to allow me to be part of an active RP community here in SotA. :'(

But... That's precisely why freewill and open-mindedness are so important here. While I (genuinely) admire people who have enough relevant experience and/or knowledge in such matters, I can't help but try to keep it rational: very few of the points addressed point out to the obvious, and the obvious is none of us neither can truly decide anything, nor have enough influence to make any difference.

We weren't lied to. RMT was a thing from the start. Whether it's moral, acceptable, ethical... was not part of the debate then. I'm not sure it should be now. (... Or should it be?... After all, nothing's frozen in time......... And this a discussion worth having!)

There is one thing I learned while I was part of the gaming industry that I'll never forget: your intentions (as a dev) can be the purest ones, there will always be a couple rotten apples to taint the whole basket. Unfair? Totally. Frustrating? Absolutely.

But should one give them so much importance, that it comes to spoil one's own 'legit' - take note of these quotes - fun?
I chose to not think so.

 

I haven't seen a single post that claimed it wasn't allowed. Most of the posts are about people thinking ToS is iron clad and not subject to change and the negative impacts of RMT's. The updated post about RMT from Port was hardly a full throated endorsement of RMT, it was more of a buyer beware stance.

 

Exactly why I distinguish between rmt and RMT.

My goal here is to learn how we propose to help the game make sense through limitations to this type of activity.

Say I want the same spear, willing to pay for it, what helps me distinguish between your rmt and RMT.

If the only means is analyzing people's persona though psychoanalysis on the forums, then the game isn't poised to teach virtue, at all. It teaches the law of the jungle and the old paradigm.

It's not like I had many examples of people here who would do such a thing, in fact it might not exist, but I'm simply answering the OP. If you read it again you will understand why I brought up ethics, it sets the corner stone of the game, since we want to honor a certain continuity.

 

I've had the same exact discourse since we announced the marketplace.

Not I'm agains this *up in arms* ... but how do you expect to make a game about virtue if the game itself is indifferent and oblivious to possible vice invading the meta-game.

I'm not saying do this or I will quit... I'm saying explain to me, point me to the lore, point me to the reasons why I should not worry if you think that's the case.

 

OH I think I caught up so this is about RP so when RMT is brought in it means that you can't judge a person in game using only in game metric? How would you then judge the amount of time a person spends in the game isn't that the same metric? So you wouldn't then be able to judge someone unless you restricted your judgement to an equal amount of time?

 

Chaos!

Also, something about anti-virtue beinng okay as long as its consensual and such and such :>

 

Though the game allows you to not uphold said virtues.

Freewill...

Which leads to an interesting question - unfortunately totally out of subject - How to (technically) show that a player does not uphold said virtue(s) with action(s) that can't be assessed IC?

I would LOVE to see such a system... where one can be held accountable for every single action - IC, OOC, quest-related, or not. Especially when you're supposed to 'roleplay' none other than your true self - or did I get the whole 'being pulled through space' thing wrong? If so, please correct me.

I'm afraid this can't be done, though. :/

[Edit: Typos.]

 

The actual metric does not matter in the least ! The thing that matters is the limits the game puts on those meta-transactions.

If you want to spend the whole night up to gather ressources and sell them more power to you, but what does the game do to make sure you are acting within the intended limits of the game ? Even more importantly, how does the game offer me information that help me make a choice. I want to encourage the local blacksmith, not an overseas mining operation. That is important to my character and myself.

Right now its done through manual moderation by the devs who look at stats constantly (which is already good since not all games do this). This takes time and ressources in a very critical time in development...

What if instead the game limited when/who and also where you could make those transactions ? I'm talking soft limits here, something that fits with the lore of the game.

I'll push it a little further even, what if the game forced you to use the money acquired through those transactions back in the game ? Would that disturb you ?

That would prevent someone using the game, taking all the revenue away and not investing one bit back into portalarium.