A new players impression of the deck system

Since I’m a little over 40 hours into play, I’d thought I’d share my views of the deck system from a NPE point of view while it’s fresh in my mind.

I’m thoroughly enjoying everything except one thing, the deck system.

I have read through Thebalances’s excellent post as to how the deck system works and done what I feel is thorough testing for my 40+ hours of play. I have tested two different builds and feel I have a good understanding of the system. I’m open to correction and/or enlightenment.

For me, a good combat system is comprised of control. By control I mean the system by which a player makes decisions on gear and abilities, to utilizing those decisions in combat; when and what ability to use to counter, engage, self heal, heal other, run, dot, root, etc.

All these things function when using the traditional setup, or Dallas mode as it’s referred to here. But when utilizing the deck system, there is one glaring deficiency from this formula of control, the “when and what” ability to use. Abilities are dealt to you in weighted randomness. By weighted, I mean you can put more cards in your deck to increase the chance of an ability to be available. It is still random, at least from my point of view as I can not predict which card will show next. I know there is a system in the background to how this works, but it’s cryptic and for a combat system that should allow snappy accurate decisions, it’s unfathomable to me how I can create a build that I’m in control of.

In short, the deck system deals you a hand and it’s your job to decide how to best use the given hand. To me, that’s a layer of separation from the battle. I should be able to keep my eyes on the battle and based on what my opponent is doing, make decisions. Not keep my eyes on both the battle and my deck to make decisions on which random ability will work the best. It’s non-intuitive, non-immersive, and quite simply, unenjoyable.

I thought about going pure Dallas but that would put me at a severe disadvantage as the dps is much lower. I am a competitive gamer.

I know I’m not alone in this, I’ve seen others spout their dislike of this deck system on Steam and I’ve come to discover that some of my friends played SOTA only to turn away simply because of the deck system.

I really want this to be my game of games and I'm trying hard to find enjoyment in the deck system. It’s so close to being a deal breaker though. I hope further development will give me hope.

I ask of the game designers to take a step back, unmarry yourself from this system and ask yourself the straight hard question, is this system good for the game?


Thanks for taking the time to read,
Amadar

 

Personally I prefer the random deck. To each his own. Some people prefer chess, others prefer poker.

 

Are you sure you know how to make a proper deck?

I mean with a sluglesss, 20-21 glyph deck.. i run 2 perma locks, rest unlocked with assigned cards to each number.. and the rate they pull up is pretty much the equivalent of any other game with locked skills on cooldown.

 

I'm using a totally drawn deck bar presently. I'm having no difficulty in choosing which abilities I use. I find my bar is often fully loaded. I usually run out of focus before I run out of options.

 

I didn't like it at first.
Used a locked old school style deck.

Then...read a bit...experimented a little...I'm now running all my decks unlocked (except for one locked slot for healing). I even have one deck unlocked with a few totally random slots...and to my surprise it's claiming names!
Honestly, now that I've given it a chance I think the dynamic deck system adds a layer of interaction other combat systems lack; I'm really enjoying it.

I think you might just need to experiment a little more.
This isn't the exact guide I used...can't find it now...but it's got some good insight. Hope that helps!

http://www.themadhermitgaming.com/shroud-of-the-avatar-deck-building-guide/

 

I will continue to research and experiment as I really do like this game.
My main issue is that at 40 hours in, I'd think I get it by now. Whether the deck system is ultimately good or not, it is a problem as the learning curve is too high. I can see your typical fickle gamer leaving far before that.
I'm hoping that point hits home with the devs as business depends on player retention.

Any examples would be appreciated. I understand you might not want to disclose your secrets, but anything to help shed light on what I'm missing.
I'm only running two unlocked slots now as I'm just frustrated by casting from random hands. I'll go back to the drawing board soon.

One idea I've had since is that if a locked deck could somehow be on par dps wise to a dynamic deck, then the statement, to each their own could come into play.

Thanks for the input

 

This!!!

 

yes i understand your problem if the mob stays put it is no problem but wen thy start running away and such it is hard to keep focus on both the game and the wack a moll deck system .
to bad the deck system is here to stay .
check out the great guide by @TheBalance
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...od-and-how-to-modify-it-for-your-needs.58341/
the drag a glyph icon onto the bar specific .
my curent setup is all unlockt :
1-4 all my melee combat skils
5 close combat magic skil
6 ranged magic skill
7 short defence skils ( like riposte and parry ) 10-20 sec
8-9 longer defence skils ( defencive stance, inner str , flame blade ) 20 sec +
10 heals including the necro heals .
this way i might not know witch specific skill i am using wen i am running around but i know the effect it will have .
for instance :
if something is running away i hit 6 and i do a ranged attack .
it can be earth arrow or fire arrow or someting els but i know whitout looking it will be ranged and do dmg .

 

There are basically three things you can do to a specific hotkey:

1. Lock a single ability to it. This makes it always available, with a cooldown, but it cannot be used to combo with.
2. Unlock it completely so any skill in your deck can go to it. This is the most freeform, but unorganized.
3. Specify which skills in your deck can go to it. They are still drawn randomly, but it helps organize your abilities.

I strongly recommend that you have one locked healing ability, and the majority of your skills specified to specific hotkeys. I basically run 1-8 as specified, with 1-5 being my primary DPS skills 6-7 being my utility abilities. Depending on my build, 8-9 will either be healing and cures or crowd control. 0 is always my locked heal. The benefits of this is I can stack in 1-5 with my left hand, while moving and doing charge attack with my mouse hand.

If you are frustrated by randomness, eliminate everything you don't absolutely need from your deck, and control where they get drawn too. Hopefully that will help make you feel more like Dallas mode, without sacrificing the power you gain from a randomized draw. If you stay close to the card limit without getting slugs, you should draw at about the same speed as locked skills would recharge.

 

Played 500hrs and still building decks for this or that scene, get aware of this or that which does it better.

Try more !!!

Don't use too much skills, unlock more skills and find what fits in this or that situation.

 

This "deck system" is not going to be ideal for everyone, that's a fact. However, it is different from most games and with the inherent randomness it does add a bit of challenge to combat. For those two reasons, I believe this Dev team will stick with the deck system for combat. Besides, we are way too far along in development now to change it at this point.

So, I suggest everyone just embraces it and tries to utilize it to it's fullest potential.

Yes, the randomness is a factor for many people, but there are ways that you can build a deck to help control what comes up and where.

I'm not going to do a full guide on the deck system because there are several already on these forums. But here are a few points to help you out:

1. Try to keep a deck focused on one sort of task at a time. There are a lot of great skill/spell trees to choose from and it's tempting to learn them all and add them to one single deck. But, there simply isn't enough slots on the bar to do this effectively. At most you can dedicate 2 or 3 slots to something different than the main focus (maybe for heals or buffs or crowd control abilities, etc.) but you want the bulk of your slots to be loaded with similar spells.

2. So goal #1 is to keep the deck focused. That not only means keep it mostly damage spells or weapon skills or healing skills ONLY... but even more precise would be to keep it to the same school of magic or weapon tree. For instance, it's much better to build it so you get discharges and chain lightnings popping up constantly so you can stack them onto themselves... then it is to have discharge, earthquake, chain lighning, ring of fire, immolation, ice field, etc.... all popping up in your deck. Sure, they are all similar in that they are AOE types of spells, but (at least currently) you can't stack or combine those different types of AOE's together. So, if you keep your deck limited to 2 or 3 types of attacks and just keep like 4 or 5 cards of each of them in the deck, then that increases the chances that those particular spells will pop up for your to stack them.

3. The strength of this system is the ability to stack skills/spells to make them both more powerful and cost less focus. A 3-stack should be your minimum goal when using damage and healing types of spells... and ideally, you want to get them to a 5-stack for the ultimate proficiency. So, keep 1 slot unlocked, but assign only 1 skill you want to use the most. Then choose another slot and do the same with just 1 other skill you want to use a lot. Then take another 3 or 4 unlocked slots and add both of those 2 skills to all 3 or 4 slots.

This gives you 2 main attack slots and 3 more slots that are solely for drawing whatever pops up to the appropriate main slot. When you add 4 or 5 or each of these skills to the deck, you will be amazed at how fast they will pop up for you to stack them. With the other 5 slots in your deck, you can either use them for buff slots / defensive slots / heals / crowd control / etc. But whatever you choose in them, make them beneficial to your main attacks (for example: strength buffs if you are using weapon skills, dex buff if you are using a bow, int buff if you are casting magic, defensive buffs if you plan to be getting hit a lot, etc.)

4. Most importantly, DO NOT try to make the deck so you are a jack of all trades. Having a deck of 35-40 cards and 20 different types of attacks/buffs/heals that don't give you a chance to stack them is not going to help you out. You may think it's good to have many options to choose from, but if they don't ever pop up, then they are only diluting the build by spreading your cards out thin.

 

I agree with most of your assessment and also with some of the comments after. I think the first commenters are missing the point about the deck distracting from the thing you are doing, the combat. Even with my deck of attack skills in 1-4 then range skills then buffs, I know where things are and can usually tell what I want to do but I still have to look down at the bar and away from combat too often. And reaching for the number keys means I am not actively moving and using range with my attacks... I usually just stand there and hit keys till mobs are dead.
Yes, I also find it disappointing, but not sure how to improve right now and still have the variety and choice available.

 

As far as having too many skills in your deck. Think of Magic, if you're familiar with it. The larger number of different cards in your deck, the lesser the probability of getting the one you want when you want it.

 

This is almost precisely how I was laying it out. I quoted you just to give a gauge of my experience level with the deck system.

 

That's a quality tip right there. Thank you.

 

May I ask something related to this.
I know combining the same skill makes a mightier version of it and takes less focus.
Either I understand it wrong but I read somewhere that someone stacks a skill 3 -5 times.
I am using numberkeys and don't drag and drop, until now I was unable to stack more than 2.
Is it possible to stack more?

 

Hardest part is having skills in there under 40
At 40? or 50? one of them, you end up with 4 copies of said card. I would use a static till your main attack skills or w.e your skills are running, have 4 copies.
That will help you design a proper deck a lot better.

 

Just FYI: after sinking in about 500 hours, there are still things that I have not yet explored, especially those new changes in the past months.

Specifically for the deck system, I didn't find out about the "assigned" glyph until after around 80-100 hours into the game. I thought there were only locked or unlock (which is actually "unassigned" or "random"). I think I were to RTFM or if there were some posts and videos available like right now, I would probably pick that up earlier.

 

You can stack up to the # of copies of any one glyph you have in the deck. 2-5.

You can't build a 5 stack if you only have 2 of a glyph in the deck.

Level 1 (1st glyph)
Level 10 (2nd glyph)
Level 20 (3rd glyph)
Level 40 (4th glyph)
Level 80 (unlocks the fifth glyph)

 

Um, but how, just drag and drop?
If I push 1+2 I get a 2 stacked on 2
Then the same skill comes up on 1 again and I tried to press 1+2 to create a 3 stacked on no2, but it doesn't work.
Didn't try drag and drop, but this is impossible due to I am a mage, using lightning and always have to run around and move.