1. We have a QA initiative where we work with the community more closely than ever to get your bug reports into the hands of the developers. Please use this forum for LIVE Server bug reporting. Do follow the format below, because it will help us out greatly in responding. If you do not, it's possible your bug report will be misinterpreted, or worse, lost!

    Read BEFORE submitting your first bug: Reporting Bugs… QA 101 Document
    • Search for your bug before posting in order to avoid duplicate reports.
    • Only reply to an existing thread if you have additional information for the reported bug. ALL extraneous commentary will be deleted to avoid cluttering the reports.
    • Keep your bug report short and factual.
    • There is no need to submit crash logs. Crash data we require is automatically logged.
    Bug Report Template
    1. Title:
    2. Reproduction Rate:
    3. Blocker?
    4. Details:
    5. Steps to Reproduce:
    6. User Specs:
    To get started, use /bug in-game (/devbug if on QA) to auto-create this template. It will even auto-fill some of the required information and open the browser for you. Then take the information that was just saved to your system's clipboard and paste it into a new QA forum post. Thank you bug hunters!
  2. Avatars, the new release is upon us! Please use this forum for FEEDBACK reporting, BUGS go here. If bugs are posted in this feedback forum, our team will not be able to process them!

    Search this forum before posting. Also, please provide brief and to-the-point feedback. It's not necessary to write an entire one-paragraph page if a few sentences gets across the point. We hear you, and greatly appreciate your feedback on this latest release!
Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

Brewing Numbers - Port Hates Money

Discussion in 'Release 56 QA Feedback' started by Lhamabomb, Jul 20, 2018.

  1. disorder

    disorder Avatar

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    8
    A lot of faith in Lord British was lost on this day.
     
    Lhamabomb and By Tor like this.
  2. Drake Aedus

    Drake Aedus Avatar

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    809
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
     
  3. CatweazleX

    CatweazleX Avatar

    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    602
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    It was 40 gold per bottle. Currently there are no bottles of wine on the NPC-Vendors.

    The bottles of wine are still there where i have stored them.

    Better you consume them for cooking on the live server (in R55). If they change the recipes like mentioned in the R56 draft, all wine bottles become deco items only.
     
    By Tor likes this.
  4. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    8,764
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    While it 'technically' meets the mark, it only does so because of the farming aspect. The current prices, brewing is straight loss-making; any profit you make is from the farming stage. So it makes more sense to just farm, sadly, and save yourself the hassle and cost of cask-making and ingredient-crafting and cask-refilling. I could see potentially if the ingredient/refill steps at least gave decent XP, but at 25 xp each its not really better than just basic smelting. With these prices I think brewing just became one an obsolete feature already, one of those things you can do for RP purposes to have a bit of beer but not something that has a productive purpose. Which is a shame, considering how long it was awaited and the amount of effort that went into implementing it.

    If the issue was maturation when not placed, then simply make the only way to retrieve the contents to click the spigot that appears when the cask is ready. While yes, an alt or box could technically still 'hold' these, you'd have to place them down one by one and click them, which is quite frankly, a lot of hassle, especially for a large operation, but should help satisfy the time sink. Else make them not mature unless actually placed properly, and I'll go fill my basement up. This is initially how I thought it would work anyway, actually crafted casks based on my basement capacity.

    The problem of course is...you have to pick them all up to refill them....so if we're talking revamp, lets address that step...;)

    The solution of "nerf the price into making the entire system pointless" isn't really a solution. You wont have to worry about people holding casks on an alt, sure, but you've also just implemented an entire system that results in a couple more furniture deco items / consumables.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  5. Drake Aedus

    Drake Aedus Avatar

    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    809
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    I can't wait for fishing!


    :oops:
     
  6. By Tor

    By Tor Avatar

    Messages:
    2,304
    Likes Received:
    4,704
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA
    Lol! +1
     
    kaeshiva likes this.
  7. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    5,348
    Likes Received:
    10,084
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Fix for that should be "stuff doesn't age if it's not placed in the world."
     
    Lyndoman and Elwyn like this.
  8. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    5,348
    Likes Received:
    10,084
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    And re: prices, I'll just float out there that QA is always in flux. Those might not be the final prices.
     
    Elwyn likes this.
  9. disorder

    disorder Avatar

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    8
    It is equal parts ridiculous and disappointing. Really not much else. Such a waste of effort for both the Dev's and the Players.
     
    kaeshiva and By Tor like this.
  10. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

    Messages:
    5,348
    Likes Received:
    10,084
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Also, I'd like to throw this out there but hopefully not derail this thread with it. It is my belief that social activities and crafting should come with a profit as well.

    I approve of profit from crafting. I think it's way better when the profit is made from selling to another player, but even dumping your extra swords to the local NPC militia shouldn't be a giant hit. If you craft swords for an hour, get an hours worth of profit instead of an hours worth of loss.

    To be clear on crafting, I don't take a loss on those swords because I only make one or two at a time, and then wait until they sell, I never do giant batches.

    Make dance parties generate some gold! Since it's social, make it generate more based on how many people showed up!

    ("But gold generation must come with RISK!")

    Why? If I'm making 4k an hour dancing, and someone else is making 7k an hour adventuring, how is me having dance time hurting anything?

    Why should adventurers and gatherers be the only ones who can just step into the world and grind? I don't buy the RISK argument. There is no risk. This game doesn't actually kill anyone.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  11. Lhamabomb

    Lhamabomb Avatar

    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bramble
    Well i hope for those that stick around the numbers end up looking better. But like i said, port showed their cards in a lot of ways doing what they did here...

    So rather than raise my cortisol levels any higher from shady stuff like this, i'm stepping away.

    Game is great, horribly managed, like so many others out there today... But that's what happens when you try to force a golden goose to lay eggs
     
    By Tor likes this.
  12. CatweazleX

    CatweazleX Avatar

    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    602
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Make it simple: Every minute someone is online he/she gets 100 gold. And when people starts complaining it becomes to less, give more and more... as long as everybody has understand acrifice...
     
    Vladamir Begemot likes this.
  13. Billy Bologna

    Billy Bologna Avatar

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    3
    This is still just QA guys. This is exactly the feedback Port needs to be hearing before release. Lets hope they do the right thing here.

    It's not the way I prefer to make gold.. but I will say that casks should only be allowed to mature in basements.. WHEN PLACED. NOT in your inventory. It gives plenty of incentive to finish the main quest-place a row house with basement-upgrade lot/basement-make more gold. Then you wont have a million casks all over the main parts of town (lag)... and gives reason to place and visit your basements. I'm sure this is easier said than done however. I cant even imagine how they would code this. I just hope they seriously look at this as its a passionate trade players wish to partake in the game.... Fishing will be even worse if not done correctly (treasure maps/message in bottles please. we don't care about nicer/new fish).
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    Vaiden Luro likes this.
  14. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    2,684
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Crafters Town
    That will kill the brewing system ... setting up 500 -1000 brew barrel in your basement everyday ..put em down pick them up in inventory ... its like having to setup your farms planting pots everyday ..... a better solution would be to have them setup in the basement ... and be allowed to just add the ingredient to it ..same way you add a seed to a planting pot...3 days later you go get your beer out and place another brew ingredient (and even that way would be bad without a batching system) ... its like trying to plant your farm plots one seed at a time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    MANTACO, Vaiden Luro and disorder like this.
  15. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    8,764
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female

    Agreed - having to pick them up and put them into your inventory to refill them is probably more the reason people are "having an alt hold them" than lack of space. If you have to pick them up to refill them, and they continue to age while in your inventory, why WOULDN'T you just hold them on an alt (or in a box next to the cooking bench, for example)? This to me was the big oversight in the entire system.

    now, if you could empty and refill them by clicking them in the world - assuming you have ingredients in your inventory? Then we could make it so they only mature while sat - adding a space limitation such as agriculture has and solving the issue.
     
    Vaiden Luro likes this.
  16. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    8,764
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    I've been making this point for well on three years now as every time a way is found to make any sort of money through non-killing means it is quickly found and nerfed to oblivion.
    If a player's time has value, it should not matter how they are spending that time.
    Killing monsters for gold has no more merit than crafting items for gold.
    Even at the best case, crafting income was about half as lucrative, and I'm ok with that - if you can make 10k/hr killing monsters and selling their crap to NPCs who buy it ad infinitum and never run out 0f gold, then why could you not sell crafted goods to those same NPCs at the same rate of profitability? Or if you must have "risk" be a variable, then make it half as profitable.

    It has often been argued that they don't want players to be able to "print money" - ie, buy mats from NPC, make item, sell to NPC. But I continue to ask ...WHY NOT? If a player time investment is required I don't understand why crafting is a less valid methodology. The only real valid argument I've heard is "because people will set up macros/bots". And I suppose, perhaps, that it is too difficult/time consuming to detect such cheaters - but I reject that it is impossible to create a system whereby NON COMBAT tradeskills can be as profitable as hacking monsters to bits. The main immersion breaking / reality defying aspect of this game is that you have all these tradespeople - players and NPCs alike, and none of them can make a living unless they go chop up monsters. I mean, its quite ludicrous.

    I thought the brewing was finally a step in the right direction - and it was limited due to the maturation times - but it seems this too has been eliminated.

    So brewing "system" - 3 new deco items you can buy heraldry for. Woulda saved a lot of time/effort by just making them furniture as that's all they're gonna be good for.
     
    Vaiden Luro, Jay Nord, Jaesun and 3 others like this.
  17. Jefe

    Jefe Avatar

    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    814
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Agree. They should consider the logic they used for planters. I once accidentally picked up one of my planters and dropped it into inventory. I believe I happened to be swapping armor manually at the time. Anyways, the planter I was carrying did not age the plants held within.

    They just need to replicate that logic for brewing.
     
  18. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Brigade – Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    8,256
    Likes Received:
    13,376
    Trophy Points:
    153
    it's planned. discord:

    Lained - Last Friday at 6:59 PM
    @Atos in case you missed it make casks work like planters so they don't mature unless placed as a deco item.

    Lace - Last Friday at 7:00 PM
    @Lained I agree you should brew in your bank heh
    er shouln't

    Atos - Last Friday at 7:00 PM
    @Lained That actually isn't true! I would LOVE that it were true but currently they have an end date when you make them

    Atos - Last Friday at 7:00 PM
    This was to simplify the implementation but I think we have to address that and make it work like you described
    Because I dream of players with basements (and soon dungeons) full of casks lined up wall to wall!
     
  19. Jefe

    Jefe Avatar

    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    814
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Well there ya go.
     
  20. Mishikal

    Mishikal Avatar

    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    2,471
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Brittany Estates
    I think overall it's important to keep in mind that brewing was a brand new feature in R55 and that it clearly needs significant additional work for it to be workable. I also think it shouldn't be difficult to make it similar to agriculture, where casks mature faster (or only) in basements, but also there needs to be a way then to restock casks without having to pick up & replace them every time, like with planting beds. And then finally, it needs to be possible to make a profit with bought water, like it currently is with agriculture. So that while your profit margin is slimmer (thus giving an incentive to those who wish to draw water) but still enough to be worthwhile to pursue brewing. Right now the margins are so slim even with hand drawing water it's not worth the time. The only area I could see a possibility for profit is brewing wine for use by people who want to cook those couple of recipes that will require brewed wine, if you can get them to buy it for more than you can sell to a merchant.