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Brewing Numbers - Port Hates Money

Discussion in 'Release 56 QA Feedback' started by Lhamabomb, Jul 20, 2018.

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  1. infernal

    infernal Avatar

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    A better fix would have been only allow the timers on kegs to count down if they are placed on a lot or if they are in a persons bag they have to be logged in for the timer to count down.
     
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  2. Elwyn

    Elwyn Avatar

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    They would have to keep two times instead of just one. Right now it seems that the timer adds a fixed amount to the creation time to get the "done" time that you see in the tooltip for the cask. What they would need is a "how long it has been aging before you took it out of the world" time, and when you put it in your inventory it would update that time. Then when you place it as deco again it would compute a new "done" time based on that. It could also possibly even give you a few minutes grace period before updating the done time.

    There's no reason that the done time should have to stay the same if you take them out of being placed deco.

    Just about every new feature that isn't dead simple always has shakedown problems that are too complicated to see in QA, and they usually get put right on the next month's release. For instance, loot rolls worked but were very inconvenient. They would have been hard to test for usability by single players walking around in QA.
     
  3. Jay Nord

    Jay Nord Bug Hunter

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    Brewing is a huge time sink, which I think should be rewarded by making it profitable. I originally backed SotA because it was my understanding that I'd be able to just do crafting without having to do combat. So when resources were put in, guess what? They were all in combat scenes. I sold my account. I came back a few days before live launch to give it another go. The only profitable crafting activity I can think of at the moment is cotton farming. And I think the only reason for that is that NPC's don't sell cotton or cloth or thread (that I know of), and players need cotton to make stuff. If players can make a thing, NPC's should not sell it. Arrows are a good example. I can't make any profit on them selling to players as long as NPC's are selling them for .08g each.

    The time investment in brewing is crazy. 24 hours to get a crop of grapes in a greenhouse. Plus the time spent drawing water, running to the vendor to buy seeds, planting, watering, harvesting.
    Drawing more water to make the ingredients, going to the NPC for yeast and sugar, run back home to put it all together, and then put the ingredients together. Now you need a cask to put them in. Hours of finding trees to chop, making timbers, making boards, mining to make ingots, smelt those, make bindings, build a barrel, make a cask. Mind you, I despise having to do combat, so I do as little possible, which means getting my ore and wood from tier 1 scenes that I probably won't die in, so this takes a lot of time. Hours and hours of time. Now I have a cask of wine that has to sit for a real life week before I can even recoup my money. Which currently on QA is 3g x 40 wine = 120g. Seriously? I can make 150g doing 2 local mail runs in 8 minutes. For the time and effort I've put into making that cask, I expect to paid a lot better for my time. And... NPC's are selling wine for 10g each last I looked. They could certainly pay me 6-8g a glass and still have their profit ;)

    Portalarium, I don't know what y'all have against crafters making a decent living, but please rethink the prices on brewing to let us have some profit options other than growing and selling cotton (boring).
     
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  4. Mishikal

    Mishikal Avatar

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    It's actually profitable to sell cotton to the NPCs as well. You just get a higher profit if you can sell it to a player for more than you sell it to an NPC. Also, your arrows example is no longer valid. It was noted in the R55 release notes that with the "arrowheads from metal scraps" recipe it is actually possible to craft them for less than you pay at the store. I don't know the full price differential though. A crafting costs spreadsheet is on my to-do list.
     
  5. kaeshiva

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    So if they are going to make them only mature when placed....you add a significant time sink step in manually picking them all up to refill them and then placing them all back down again.
    Are they going to rework refilling so you can refill by say, clicking on a cask with ingredients in inventory (rather than crafting bench?)
    And if they're going to make this more laborous, which I don't have an issue with, are they going to fix the prices so its actually worth the effort?
    Guess we shall see.
     
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  6. Anvar

    Anvar Avatar

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    @DarkStarr @Lord British You need to look through this thread and seriously adjust the numbers or you will have a lot of very pissed off players / people leaving you game and you need to not make after the event knee jerk over reactions like this
    now were post launch.

    People have invested a lot of time and money, both real and ingame into things such as brewing as it had a very good profit margin.
    Now no-one would object to balancing the numbers so the profit wasnt as large but the amount of time and money invested to make that profit needs to also be taken into consideration as even with a massive investment in the brewing and a lot of time per day crafting I would have still made more per day just grinding a tier 1 adventure zone naked, brewing was just a nice sideline and being as beyond rp purposes it has no ingame purpose a profit was the only reason to do it.

    The fact that youve now made something that had a good profit actually make a LOSS is beyond ridiculous. The only way to make a profit now would be to gather all the water yourself , and youd be looking at about a 5k profit for about 24 hours
    of time invested to gather water, plant crops and brew the beer. Enough said.
     
  7. 2112Starman

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    I could care less about "making money". Why do people think this is about making money? I have 100+ 25 year fine scotch with my name on it fermenting now. I offer to anyone in 340 days to trade one of my barrels for yours when they are done. I plan on collecting my scotch, show casing my collection for all to see.... as I am a scotch fan in real life.
     
  8. DarkStarr

    DarkStarr Executive Producer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    We are considering a change to inventory limits so they will no longer be infinite on characters. If we implement this change in Release 57 we could possibly return Beer and Wine to their previous pricing as this will close the current loophole that is causing economic imbalance.
     
  9. Barugon

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    Any idea what that limit would be? Will quest items count toward it?
     
  10. Drake Aedus

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    Hmm, none of our spirits will be stamped with our names... will I have to start my long term brews over again now?
     
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  11. Lhamabomb

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    Read:"We're considering breaking a system that is currently functional and the backbone to the entire inventory system because someone might spend hundreds of thousands of gold and hours making casks only to spend additional hours crafting ingredients and packing casks and THEN they might just log that character off and *gasp* not place them in the world*"

    I just don't understand how you built in all the necessary initial and recurring time and financial investment constraints and you don't understand it. There's a barrier to entry to make it worthwhile. Once it's worthwhile, there's a regular time investment to maintain the worth. It's not a get rich quick scheme by any means. It seems you guys are only looking at the monetary numbers and not considering all the other factors involved.

    If botting is the concern, build or contract a better bot catcher. If you want deco limits to be a constraint, do the thing that's been suggested several times in this thread and make casks operate like planting beds and don't let them age while in an inventory. This shotgun surgery of "lets make player inventory finite" is a step in the wrong direction and would inch you even closer to the "Just another FTP MMO" genre.

    But hey, what do I know, I'm just a former customer.
     
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  12. Lord Andernut

    Lord Andernut Avatar

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    Could beer and wine work similar to plants and just not mature when in storage?
     
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  13. Mishikal

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    @DarkStarr It's not clear to me that an inventory limit fixes much. There are all sorts of things I can do to get around that, like craft some chests, store them in chests. It would add all of 2 steps for 300 casks, but that's it (get all, craft the casks, put all the casks in the chest). Rinse and repeat infinitely.
     
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  14. Barugon

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    If you're not happy with an item count limit for your inventory then they can just keep the current pricing. Problem solved.
     
  15. Mishikal

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    How does an item count for inventory really solve anything? As I noted, you can trivially work around such an artificial limitation by using multiple chests. In addition, they already have inventory limits based on weight, and the game is designed entirely upon that concept. Do they get rid of heavy lifter? Does it increase your item count? What about all the crap that doesn't stack that you accumulate while XPing? Adding an inventory limit at this point would cause a multitude of problems and would be a dramatic change. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but it'd actually have to solve a problem to be worth implementing, and it's trivial to bypass.
     
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  16. Barugon

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    If there's one thing I have learned over the years about online games, it's that if there's some way to abuse something then people will do it. Even if you're using containers and maxing out your deco limit, there are still limits. There is currently no limit on how many items you can have in your inventory. Just because you can't see a way to abuse it doesn't mean that it can't be abused.
     
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  17. Mishikal

    Mishikal Avatar

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    Well, I have a keep dungeon which allows me to place > 10,000 items for decor. So I could have approximately 3 million casks (minus a few for lights and other decor). So I don't see how the inventory limitation is a solution. ;) You're more limited by the amount of time it takes to "fill" the casks than anything else.
     
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  18. Mishikal

    Mishikal Avatar

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    Oops, I forgot the container limit is tracked separately, so I'm limited to 825 containers. So make that "only" 247,500 casks in containers. (A 247,500,000 gold investment).
     
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  19. CatweazleX

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    If they made it so, that a cask only brew when placed, like the planters, you are limited to 825 casks. And can not use your inventory anymore. It was already mentioned to make brewing similar to planting.
    To make it acceptable to the player base, casks shouldn't be filled on the cooking station but by dragging the ingredients into the cask. If this is the wrong ingredient or the cask already contain items, it will simply act as a normal container.

    Additionally if 825 casks are more then wanted by the devs, casks can also count more then one container. If they count as 3 container, this will limit casks to 275 on a keep dungeon.

    But i think they will put the item limit through. Regardless of alternative solution. If it is only because of not using your alt as a bank box. 30$ are 6 bank upgrades (+600 slots) or an alt (+infinite slots).

    Personally i would like to see, that your inventory "breaks" when it holds more then 3000 stones. All items are falling down and start to decay, if not collected by another avatar. And you have to buy a new backpack to have a inventory you can use.
    (image the inventory as a backpack. the items can visualized as trunks and small bags laying around and containing up to 150 / 300 items with public access or more simple a broken backpack as a public chest -> abusers loot boxes)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  20. Hermann von Salza

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    ..for me they are playing on time..i don´t see the sake to change this. They only don´t have the balls to tell us that this is another deco profession.

    Sorry @DarkStarr but here are so many contructive approaches that your comment on this is far to weak.

    Reagrds
    Hermann
     
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